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	<title>Comments on: 2004 Income Tax Study Disseminated</title>
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	<description>it&#039;s like being there</description>
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		<title>By: Karen Sidney</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/14/2004-income-tax-study-disseminated/comment-page-1/#comment-6366</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Sidney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=11901#comment-6366</guid>
		<description>A city income tax would only eliminate the city operating millage,not all city property taxes.  The operating millage was 37% of the total city property tax I paid in 2008 and 14% of my total 2008 property tax bill.  

A quick and dirty way to figure out if you would pay more or less with a city income tax is to compare 1% of taxable income (line 16) on the 2007 Michigan return with 14% of the total property tax paid in 2008.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A city income tax would only eliminate the city operating millage,not all city property taxes.  The operating millage was 37% of the total city property tax I paid in 2008 and 14% of my total 2008 property tax bill.  </p>
<p>A quick and dirty way to figure out if you would pay more or less with a city income tax is to compare 1% of taxable income (line 16) on the 2007 Michigan return with 14% of the total property tax paid in 2008.</p>
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		<title>By: DeeDee</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/14/2004-income-tax-study-disseminated/comment-page-1/#comment-6326</link>
		<dc:creator>DeeDee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=11901#comment-6326</guid>
		<description>Wake up City Council - this property tax may not matter to big employers, but for small start ups, creative types, etc., it&#039;s A REAL BURDEN. Such businesses will need to pay more salary or their employees, who already are risking a lot to work in such a business, need to pay more tax, on what are generally pretty low salaries. This is NOT the way to revitalize the local economy; it certainly doesn&#039;t help folks trying to create jobs to replace companies like Pfizer get off the ground. On the other hand, it might be good for the townships and Ypsilanti which is where your small businesses will move and start spending their money.   Stop wasting money on greenway studies and other non-value added programs, and focus on cost effective delivery of basic services if you need to fix the budget.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wake up City Council &#8211; this property tax may not matter to big employers, but for small start ups, creative types, etc., it&#8217;s A REAL BURDEN. Such businesses will need to pay more salary or their employees, who already are risking a lot to work in such a business, need to pay more tax, on what are generally pretty low salaries. This is NOT the way to revitalize the local economy; it certainly doesn&#8217;t help folks trying to create jobs to replace companies like Pfizer get off the ground. On the other hand, it might be good for the townships and Ypsilanti which is where your small businesses will move and start spending their money.   Stop wasting money on greenway studies and other non-value added programs, and focus on cost effective delivery of basic services if you need to fix the budget.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Zimmerman</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/14/2004-income-tax-study-disseminated/comment-page-1/#comment-6314</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Zimmerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:21:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=11901#comment-6314</guid>
		<description>John V., re comment #1, the more I read the AAC and &lt;a href=&quot;http://arborupdate.com/article/1761/ann-arbor-city-council-retreat-recap&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ArborUpdate&lt;/a&gt;, the more it seems to me that there are two fundamental groups of people who post in these venues and float ideas here.

One, the majority here, is composed of people who believe in city government, want to give it more resources, and want it to work more effectively and humanely to provide various desirable services; a lot of those services are to some extent &quot;new&quot; as in they are accorded moderate priority (or, if you will, lip service) under the status quo, e.g higher degrees of environmental sustainability, 100% sidewalk snow removal.  

The second group, the minority, is fundamentally skeptical of city government and is operating with a different set of goals, more focused on efficiency and economic growth.

In Ann Arbor, it&#039;s not as simple as saying group #1 is Democrats, group #2 is Republicans.  

To answer your question, &quot;who are these people,&quot; I believe there is a sampling problem because group #1 likes these venues more than group #2.  I&#039;ll stipulate that group #1 is probably in the majority in AA, but I believe the degree of the majority is exaggerated in this environment.  (For various psychodynamic reasons of my own not fully understood by me I have been waging a lonely battle to make up the difference  by posting a huge volume of #2 posts.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John V., re comment #1, the more I read the AAC and <a href="http://arborupdate.com/article/1761/ann-arbor-city-council-retreat-recap" rel="nofollow">ArborUpdate</a>, the more it seems to me that there are two fundamental groups of people who post in these venues and float ideas here.</p>
<p>One, the majority here, is composed of people who believe in city government, want to give it more resources, and want it to work more effectively and humanely to provide various desirable services; a lot of those services are to some extent &#8220;new&#8221; as in they are accorded moderate priority (or, if you will, lip service) under the status quo, e.g higher degrees of environmental sustainability, 100% sidewalk snow removal.  </p>
<p>The second group, the minority, is fundamentally skeptical of city government and is operating with a different set of goals, more focused on efficiency and economic growth.</p>
<p>In Ann Arbor, it&#8217;s not as simple as saying group #1 is Democrats, group #2 is Republicans.  </p>
<p>To answer your question, &#8220;who are these people,&#8221; I believe there is a sampling problem because group #1 likes these venues more than group #2.  I&#8217;ll stipulate that group #1 is probably in the majority in AA, but I believe the degree of the majority is exaggerated in this environment.  (For various psychodynamic reasons of my own not fully understood by me I have been waging a lonely battle to make up the difference  by posting a huge volume of #2 posts.)</p>
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		<title>By: cb</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/14/2004-income-tax-study-disseminated/comment-page-1/#comment-6312</link>
		<dc:creator>cb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=11901#comment-6312</guid>
		<description>As with Dave Askins I have really only skimmed the report but …

With the potential for the city to almost double its revenue (at least that is what this report was says) it is certainly easy to see why this is being entertained. However at one point money is money and regardless of how you take it, you have to take it from someone and then they don’t have it. Is this the time to be doubling taxes? The report counseled, “Moving to an income tax increases a community’s dependence on the health of the general economy.” That’s not a concept that should change with an updating of this report.

Of course, the city need not adopt an income tax system and also double its revenues, it could apt for a lower rate to simply redistribute the tax base. But will they? 

I was also struck that more than 20 Michigan cities already had city income taxes (including one I have never heard of) adopted as long ago as the 60’s and as recent as the 90’s. With this number of examples in the state I am sorry that the report doesn’t seem to offer some insight into the transition between the two systems (did I miss this?). I am wondering if the corporations raise salaries as their tax burden gets lighter? Does the working population suddenly adjust after adopting a new structure? Do business trends change over time? 

Last thought, if commuters’ salaries are to be taxed could they then serve on city boards that right now are only offered to residents?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As with Dave Askins I have really only skimmed the report but …</p>
<p>With the potential for the city to almost double its revenue (at least that is what this report was says) it is certainly easy to see why this is being entertained. However at one point money is money and regardless of how you take it, you have to take it from someone and then they don’t have it. Is this the time to be doubling taxes? The report counseled, “Moving to an income tax increases a community’s dependence on the health of the general economy.” That’s not a concept that should change with an updating of this report.</p>
<p>Of course, the city need not adopt an income tax system and also double its revenues, it could apt for a lower rate to simply redistribute the tax base. But will they? </p>
<p>I was also struck that more than 20 Michigan cities already had city income taxes (including one I have never heard of) adopted as long ago as the 60’s and as recent as the 90’s. With this number of examples in the state I am sorry that the report doesn’t seem to offer some insight into the transition between the two systems (did I miss this?). I am wondering if the corporations raise salaries as their tax burden gets lighter? Does the working population suddenly adjust after adopting a new structure? Do business trends change over time? </p>
<p>Last thought, if commuters’ salaries are to be taxed could they then serve on city boards that right now are only offered to residents?</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Dively</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/14/2004-income-tax-study-disseminated/comment-page-1/#comment-6271</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Dively</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:11:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=11901#comment-6271</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see any talking past. It&#039;s absurd to suggest that city residents do not benefit from non-residents who work in the city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see any talking past. It&#8217;s absurd to suggest that city residents do not benefit from non-residents who work in the city.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bean</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/14/2004-income-tax-study-disseminated/comment-page-1/#comment-6229</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=11901#comment-6229</guid>
		<description>Making a distinction between &quot;the (local/city) economy&quot; and &quot;municipal services&quot; might be helpful. U-M president Mary Sue Coleman in her comments to faculty regarding the possibility of PILT earlier this week, which the AA News reported on today, referred to the former, while the mayor (understandably) referred to the latter. I see the same potential for talking past each other with Kris&#039;s and Bob&#039;s comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Making a distinction between &#8220;the (local/city) economy&#8221; and &#8220;municipal services&#8221; might be helpful. U-M president Mary Sue Coleman in her comments to faculty regarding the possibility of PILT earlier this week, which the AA News reported on today, referred to the former, while the mayor (understandably) referred to the latter. I see the same potential for talking past each other with Kris&#8217;s and Bob&#8217;s comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Dively</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/14/2004-income-tax-study-disseminated/comment-page-1/#comment-6224</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Dively</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=11901#comment-6224</guid>
		<description>Right, it&#039;s not like those people spend millions of dollars at city businesses or donate to city charities or otherwise participate in the city economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, it&#8217;s not like those people spend millions of dollars at city businesses or donate to city charities or otherwise participate in the city economy.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Zimmerman</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/14/2004-income-tax-study-disseminated/comment-page-1/#comment-6216</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Zimmerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=11901#comment-6216</guid>
		<description>Yes, #7, taxing out of towners will certainly make things better here in Ann Arbor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, #7, taxing out of towners will certainly make things better here in Ann Arbor.</p>
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		<title>By: Kris</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/14/2004-income-tax-study-disseminated/comment-page-1/#comment-6215</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=11901#comment-6215</guid>
		<description>Bring it on with the 47/17/36 ratio!  There is no reason for me as an Ann Arbor resident to provide roads/resources to all of the &quot;out of towners&quot; that commute into jobs at non-taxpaying employers such as UM and UM hospital.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bring it on with the 47/17/36 ratio!  There is no reason for me as an Ann Arbor resident to provide roads/resources to all of the &#8220;out of towners&#8221; that commute into jobs at non-taxpaying employers such as UM and UM hospital.</p>
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		<title>By: mcammer</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/14/2004-income-tax-study-disseminated/comment-page-1/#comment-6213</link>
		<dc:creator>mcammer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=11901#comment-6213</guid>
		<description>This study is out-of-date in several ways, including assumptions that property values and personal income will continue to increase. However, the central conclusion is likely to remain--the city can increase overall revenue by capturing millions from commuters. 

Whether residents and corporations pay (proportionately or absolutely) more depends on the amount of income exempted from the tax. The 56/22/22 split comes from the model with the lowest exemption ($600). With an $8000 exemption, the ratio is 47/17/36. Councilperson Greden has stated that he favored a high exemption.

For me, asking non-residents to pay at all is more objectionable than the fact that businesses might pay less. All of the arguments about Ann Arbor&#039;s contributions to the greater community strike me as high-handed arrogance that only reinforces negative images of Ann Arbor. For the record, I live and work in AA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This study is out-of-date in several ways, including assumptions that property values and personal income will continue to increase. However, the central conclusion is likely to remain&#8211;the city can increase overall revenue by capturing millions from commuters. </p>
<p>Whether residents and corporations pay (proportionately or absolutely) more depends on the amount of income exempted from the tax. The 56/22/22 split comes from the model with the lowest exemption ($600). With an $8000 exemption, the ratio is 47/17/36. Councilperson Greden has stated that he favored a high exemption.</p>
<p>For me, asking non-residents to pay at all is more objectionable than the fact that businesses might pay less. All of the arguments about Ann Arbor&#8217;s contributions to the greater community strike me as high-handed arrogance that only reinforces negative images of Ann Arbor. For the record, I live and work in AA.</p>
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