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	<title>Comments on: Council OKs Graffiti Law, Questions AATA Plans</title>
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	<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/21/council-oks-graffiti-law-questions-aata-plans/</link>
	<description>it&#039;s like being there</description>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/21/council-oks-graffiti-law-questions-aata-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-8180</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=12284#comment-8180</guid>
		<description>Last summer, my daughter went to get a 30-day AATA pass, and was dismayed that the office did not take credit or debit cards. She had to make another trip to the bank to get cash.  Everyone accepts those cards, and why AATA seems to be unable to do so is pretty lame.  Perhaps they have fixed that by now, but if not, that&#039;s not providing very good service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last summer, my daughter went to get a 30-day AATA pass, and was dismayed that the office did not take credit or debit cards. She had to make another trip to the bank to get cash.  Everyone accepts those cards, and why AATA seems to be unable to do so is pretty lame.  Perhaps they have fixed that by now, but if not, that&#8217;s not providing very good service.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bean</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/21/council-oks-graffiti-law-questions-aata-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-7367</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=12284#comment-7367</guid>
		<description>I looked at the U&#039;s web site to learn about the MRide program and found that some of my thoughts in #1 have already been addressed by that program. So a better question would be, how could the existing program be expanded and improved to further benefit both the university and city communities? It&#039;s been in place for several years. Now might be a good time to evaluate it with that question in mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I looked at the U&#8217;s web site to learn about the MRide program and found that some of my thoughts in #1 have already been addressed by that program. So a better question would be, how could the existing program be expanded and improved to further benefit both the university and city communities? It&#8217;s been in place for several years. Now might be a good time to evaluate it with that question in mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Vivienne Armentrout</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/21/council-oks-graffiti-law-questions-aata-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-7360</link>
		<dc:creator>Vivienne Armentrout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=12284#comment-7360</guid>
		<description>According to the 2009 adopted budget, the UM pays $700,000 to AATA for the MRide program.  It also transfers $1.2 million in federal funds to AATA for this program.  In addition, UM pays a little over $145,000 for the LINK bus program (it has a mostly-campus branch).  In total, UM contributions are about $2.045 million, out of budgeted revenues of $24 million.

I don&#039;t know how passenger numbers were arrived at.  MRide provides free passage for all holders of valid yellow MCards.  Unless each person boarding with one of those cards is recorded, it would seem difficult to make that estimation. Instructions merely say to &quot;show&quot; the MCard.

The total AATA budget includes service to other municipalities and the &quot;demand&quot; services too (like A-Ride, door-to-door service for people with disabilities), so simple percentage comparisons are probably misleading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to the 2009 adopted budget, the UM pays $700,000 to AATA for the MRide program.  It also transfers $1.2 million in federal funds to AATA for this program.  In addition, UM pays a little over $145,000 for the LINK bus program (it has a mostly-campus branch).  In total, UM contributions are about $2.045 million, out of budgeted revenues of $24 million.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how passenger numbers were arrived at.  MRide provides free passage for all holders of valid yellow MCards.  Unless each person boarding with one of those cards is recorded, it would seem difficult to make that estimation. Instructions merely say to &#8220;show&#8221; the MCard.</p>
<p>The total AATA budget includes service to other municipalities and the &#8220;demand&#8221; services too (like A-Ride, door-to-door service for people with disabilities), so simple percentage comparisons are probably misleading.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bean</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/21/council-oks-graffiti-law-questions-aata-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-7346</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=12284#comment-7346</guid>
		<description>40% of which ridership, Stew? AATA&#039;s? If that&#039;s so, then the City/AATA really have a leverage point there to request a greater contribution. I don&#039;t remember the arrangement that AATA and the U have, though, so I&#039;d appreciate a refresher on that if you or someone else can provide it.

With regard to the relative costs, it&#039;s not all about saving money, of course. Providing quality service, serving a broad population and geographical area, paying employees a living wage, and limiting greenhouse gas emissions are among the other considerations.

Where did you get those numbers--both for costs and ridership?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>40% of which ridership, Stew? AATA&#8217;s? If that&#8217;s so, then the City/AATA really have a leverage point there to request a greater contribution. I don&#8217;t remember the arrangement that AATA and the U have, though, so I&#8217;d appreciate a refresher on that if you or someone else can provide it.</p>
<p>With regard to the relative costs, it&#8217;s not all about saving money, of course. Providing quality service, serving a broad population and geographical area, paying employees a living wage, and limiting greenhouse gas emissions are among the other considerations.</p>
<p>Where did you get those numbers&#8211;both for costs and ridership?</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Vielmetti</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/21/council-oks-graffiti-law-questions-aata-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-7345</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Vielmetti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=12284#comment-7345</guid>
		<description>Stew:

I have not seen sufficient detail in accounting to reproduce either of these numbers.

Presumably some of the University $55/hr costs are lower because they use student drivers, and don&#039;t have to pay the same health care costs since student healthcare is otherwise subsidized.

I&#039;m also not sure that any of the performance committee&#039;s &quot;efficiency&quot; metrics capture rider satisfaction adequately.  They divide up route usage by route, not by time of day, so they don&#039;t have any visibility into the number of times that buses are packed standing room only to the point that no additional riders can get on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stew:</p>
<p>I have not seen sufficient detail in accounting to reproduce either of these numbers.</p>
<p>Presumably some of the University $55/hr costs are lower because they use student drivers, and don&#8217;t have to pay the same health care costs since student healthcare is otherwise subsidized.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also not sure that any of the performance committee&#8217;s &#8220;efficiency&#8221; metrics capture rider satisfaction adequately.  They divide up route usage by route, not by time of day, so they don&#8217;t have any visibility into the number of times that buses are packed standing room only to the point that no additional riders can get on.</p>
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		<title>By: Stew Nelson</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/21/council-oks-graffiti-law-questions-aata-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-7341</link>
		<dc:creator>Stew Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=12284#comment-7341</guid>
		<description>If you don&#039;t know what the elasticity of demand is you should not lower or raise fares until you do.  My guess is that it varies for by route. 

Ted Annis actually hypothesized that giving the AATA extra money actually would make them less efficient than they are. The cost to operate a bus in AA is $110 per hour.  By comparison the University is $55 per hour.  If we really wanted to save money we would let the University operate more of the routes.  

A further note, the University makes up 40% of the ridership and and only pays 10% of the costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you don&#8217;t know what the elasticity of demand is you should not lower or raise fares until you do.  My guess is that it varies for by route. </p>
<p>Ted Annis actually hypothesized that giving the AATA extra money actually would make them less efficient than they are. The cost to operate a bus in AA is $110 per hour.  By comparison the University is $55 per hour.  If we really wanted to save money we would let the University operate more of the routes.  </p>
<p>A further note, the University makes up 40% of the ridership and and only pays 10% of the costs.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Vielmetti</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/21/council-oks-graffiti-law-questions-aata-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-7336</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Vielmetti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=12284#comment-7336</guid>
		<description>You have it pretty good actually, Fred - the 8 goes from Pauline/Stadium to Jackson/Stadium every 30 minutes and takes 9 minutes for that route.

On the other hand, from Packard/Stadium to Jackson/Stadium is a 47 minute trip (says Google) for an effective speed on that 3.3 mile trip of just over 4 mph.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have it pretty good actually, Fred &#8211; the 8 goes from Pauline/Stadium to Jackson/Stadium every 30 minutes and takes 9 minutes for that route.</p>
<p>On the other hand, from Packard/Stadium to Jackson/Stadium is a 47 minute trip (says Google) for an effective speed on that 3.3 mile trip of just over 4 mph.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Zimmerman</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/21/council-oks-graffiti-law-questions-aata-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-7330</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Zimmerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=12284#comment-7330</guid>
		<description>I share Steve Bean&#039;s skepticism about the &quot;elasticity of demand&quot; and would like to see a historical analysis of AATA&#039;s accuracy in forecasting the revenue effects of price hikes.  As Steve said, this is a strange time to be thinking about demand destruction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I share Steve Bean&#8217;s skepticism about the &#8220;elasticity of demand&#8221; and would like to see a historical analysis of AATA&#8217;s accuracy in forecasting the revenue effects of price hikes.  As Steve said, this is a strange time to be thinking about demand destruction.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Zimmerman</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/21/council-oks-graffiti-law-questions-aata-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-7329</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Zimmerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=12284#comment-7329</guid>
		<description>I was glad to read Mr. Nacht&#039;s comments about getting away from the hub-and-spoke model. There are some glaring holes in its application to Ann Arbor.  For example, there is no way for me to take a bus directly from Pauline &amp; Stadium to my office at Jackson &amp; Stadium. Why isn&#039;t there a Stadium loop?  that&#039;s ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was glad to read Mr. Nacht&#8217;s comments about getting away from the hub-and-spoke model. There are some glaring holes in its application to Ann Arbor.  For example, there is no way for me to take a bus directly from Pauline &amp; Stadium to my office at Jackson &amp; Stadium. Why isn&#8217;t there a Stadium loop?  that&#8217;s ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: Marvin Face</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/01/21/council-oks-graffiti-law-questions-aata-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-7277</link>
		<dc:creator>Marvin Face</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 04:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=12284#comment-7277</guid>
		<description>How refreshing to hear someone during public comment actually proposing something tangible that would benefit both the community and university.  Thank you Alex Levine for a breath of fresh air amidst the customary circus of palestine foolishness and the usual suspects who like to hear their own voices.  I&#039;m all for public comment, and I realize that people can talk about whatever they want during their turn at the podium but I also know that it is now essentially a booby hatch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How refreshing to hear someone during public comment actually proposing something tangible that would benefit both the community and university.  Thank you Alex Levine for a breath of fresh air amidst the customary circus of palestine foolishness and the usual suspects who like to hear their own voices.  I&#8217;m all for public comment, and I realize that people can talk about whatever they want during their turn at the podium but I also know that it is now essentially a booby hatch.</p>
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