Comments on: Bid Launched to Amend City Charter http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/03/30/bid-launched-to-amend-city-charter/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=bid-launched-to-amend-city-charter it's like being there Tue, 16 Sep 2014 04:56:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.2 By: ChuckL http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/03/30/bid-launched-to-amend-city-charter/comment-page-1/#comment-17361 ChuckL Tue, 14 Apr 2009 03:07:27 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=17256#comment-17361 All,

The point of pointing out the inflated voter role number is to make the case that when petition requirements base the number of signatures necessary to put an issue to a vote on a percentage of the registered voters, there is an inherent unfairness to the organizers of the petition drive. This is due to the fact that the number of registered voters is inflated by a factor of 1.5-2.0 (at least in the 1st Ward where I analyzed the voter registration file) the number of people who can actually vote. People who register and then leave the state without notifying the SOS office will remain on the voter roles in theory forever. That scenario happens a lot in Ann Arbor due to the transient student population. There is usually a large up-tick in voter registrations in Presidential election years. The fix to this is simple (but hard to implement), don’t base signature requirements on a percentage of registered voters. Another thing to consider: the inflated registration count understates the true voter turn-out percentage with a long range trend that will magnify the effect to the point that there will eventually be more registered voters than population in the city. I believe we are already at the point where the number of registered voters is about equal to the number of 18+ people in the population. It would be nice if the County Clerk could come up with and publish a deflation factor by ward that would give us a better idea of what the true turn-out is. I estimate it is anywhere from 0.5-0.7.

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By: jay http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/03/30/bid-launched-to-amend-city-charter/comment-page-1/#comment-15944 jay Sat, 04 Apr 2009 05:08:17 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=17256#comment-15944 if we’re going to invoke cities like portland and madison and berkley as benchmarks for intelligence then there’s a whole list of changes i’d like to see here in a2… how about a parking cap (portland for 20 years), expanded bus service with a focus on riders of choice (portland, madison), an unelected regional authority that sets urban boundries and promotes core density (portland) ‘granny flats’ (berkley) tax breaks for downtown developers (madison). i suspect some of these ideas would rankle those who hold these cities up as standard bearers for urban policy.

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By: Patricia Lesko http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/03/30/bid-launched-to-amend-city-charter/comment-page-1/#comment-15729 Patricia Lesko Fri, 03 Apr 2009 00:42:38 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=17256#comment-15729 Chuck,

For the record, I agree completely with you. Purging voter rolls sets a scary precedent. As I wrote, it’s a national problem, but one that seems increasingly surmountable as more and more of our personal data ends up in government databases (Social Security administration records, for instance). I imagine there have been some spirited discussions between the City and County Clerk’s offices on the subject; it’s a thorny problem.

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By: Chuck Warpehoski http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/03/30/bid-launched-to-amend-city-charter/comment-page-1/#comment-15702 Chuck Warpehoski Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:38:55 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=17256#comment-15702 Regarding voter role accuracy, Lesko tells half the story. She writes, “The problem of the inaccurate voter rolls in our city … is a significant one when undertaking citizen-driven petitions or citizen-driven ordinances. It is interfering with the legal avenues open to citizens to participate in government. I suppose someone could sue the City Clerk for not keeping accurate record.”

Yes, the high number of out-of-date records does make things like this more difficult, but what are the alternatives? What are their costs? When you start purging the voter roles, you run into problems with valid voters not being on the list.

I would rather err on the side of keeping people on the list rather than disenfranchising people with an aggressive cleanup effort.

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By: Patricia Lesko http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/03/30/bid-launched-to-amend-city-charter/comment-page-1/#comment-15695 Patricia Lesko Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:52:38 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=17256#comment-15695 Diane,

Voters would confirm Council’s request or reject it. City staff does a superb job of educating voters when city-initiated funding proposals are brought before us. The School District does, as well. This proposed amendment would entail the continuance of the education of the electorate—in this instance concerning the GO bond proposals. This is nothing new or radical; it’s done year after year for funding proposals for roads, parks and our schools. This proposed amendment would simply add GO Bonds to the list.

The point of the proposed amendment is for voters and government to work in concert with respect to GO Bond issuances as we do in these many other instances.

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By: Patricia Lesko http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/03/30/bid-launched-to-amend-city-charter/comment-page-1/#comment-15690 Patricia Lesko Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:34:46 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=17256#comment-15690 Hi Steve,

Getting valid signatures from a requisite number of registered voters is the only way to get such a proposal on the ballot. The problem of the inaccurate voter rolls in our city (inflated by perhaps 20 percent) is a significant one when undertaking citizen-driven petitions or citizen-driven ordinances. It is interfering with the legal avenues open to citizens to participate in government. I suppose someone could sue the City Clerk for not keeping accurate records, but it’s really a national debate on the maintenance of voter rolls. So, yes, it is necessary to find the “real” voters.

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By: Diane http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/03/30/bid-launched-to-amend-city-charter/comment-page-1/#comment-15532 Diane Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:16:05 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=17256#comment-15532 Steve post 11-

the vote is not to confirm council’s judgment but rather to overrule council’s judgment. The problem is that the people who are overruling are less informed.

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By: Steve Bean http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/03/30/bid-launched-to-amend-city-charter/comment-page-1/#comment-15529 Steve Bean Wed, 01 Apr 2009 19:22:30 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=17256#comment-15529 Another one for you, Pat:

“That’s the primary goal, so targeting voters is necessary and will get us a higher percentage of valid signers.”

Is it really “necessary”? Seems more like a choice. If that seems like nit picking, consider that someone who sees things from Daniel’s perspective, for example, might argue that it’s “necessary” for council to make GO bond decisions.

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By: Steve Bean http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/03/30/bid-launched-to-amend-city-charter/comment-page-1/#comment-15528 Steve Bean Wed, 01 Apr 2009 19:13:18 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=17256#comment-15528 My understanding is that the public would only be asked to vote on a GO bond proposal by action of city council. In essence, the vote would be to confirm council’s judgment. No ripping or dumping involved.

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By: Daniel Adams http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/03/30/bid-launched-to-amend-city-charter/comment-page-1/#comment-15516 Daniel Adams Wed, 01 Apr 2009 17:02:11 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=17256#comment-15516 “So voters in Portland and Madison are smart enough to make GO bond decisions but voters in Ann Arbor aren’t? Got it.”

I think this argument misses the mark. Even assuming the A2 voting public is be “smart enough,” when it comes to issues like GO debt/bonds, it is not as capable or as educated as the members of the city council.

It is simply not enough to say, “They do it in other cities, so why not here?” Nor is it enough to blindly rely on the false premise that more democracy will always create better outcomes. It doesn’t.

One of the real strengths of representative democracy is that it tasks a select group of informed voters to the most sophisticated issues. Ripping these core issues away from the professionals and dumping them on a (largely apathetic) voting public does not seem wise.

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