Comments on: Dam Questions Dominate Caucus http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/06/15/dam-questions-dominate-caucus/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=dam-questions-dominate-caucus it's like being there Tue, 16 Sep 2014 04:56:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.2 By: jcp2 http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/06/15/dam-questions-dominate-caucus/comment-page-1/#comment-28896 jcp2 Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:49:10 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=22465#comment-28896 I think typographical studies should be taken care of by the editor.

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By: John Rinne http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/06/15/dam-questions-dominate-caucus/comment-page-1/#comment-28885 John Rinne Mon, 27 Jul 2009 05:39:24 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=22465#comment-28885 The engineering fundamentals of any water system are simple enough anywhere in the world:
1). A river system needs to have incremental points to safetly contain massive influxes of surface-water flooding, which will also serve as storage points during times of drought.

2). The inclusion of hydro-electric generating capability is also one of security, and long-term investment.
What is more important to a city’s pysche/economy than a consistent supply of water, and(limited)electricity for emergency use?

This subject is new(please forgive any ignorance), but it seems like the deterioration of the mill gates was due to long-term city negligence, and/or poor initial construction, and it is now a problem.
The taxpayer argument now seems to have been reduced into whether or not to charge UM students on the rowing team permits to pay for the entire reconstruction…..huh? The city throws millions left and right.

Have any typographical studies been done?
Are there better local areas along the Huron to potentially contain large amounts of water besides Argo?

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By: Boatman http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/06/15/dam-questions-dominate-caucus/comment-page-1/#comment-26432 Boatman Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:29:18 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=22465#comment-26432 John,
Thank you for clarifying the point, I still believe that the simple solution is to close off the mill race. Where in the analysis from Laura Rubin was this explored? If water is prevented from moving through the mill race, will this end the threat of failed toe drains?

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By: John Charles http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/06/15/dam-questions-dominate-caucus/comment-page-1/#comment-26291 John Charles Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:05:27 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=22465#comment-26291 This letter came from David A. Hamilton, Chief of the DEQ Water Management Section; it was sent to the city of Ann Arbor on November 18, 2004.

“The inspection report for the Argo Dam identifies problems that may threaten its safety. Specifically, the toe drains along the downstream side of the raceway canal embankment are failing. …The toe drain system should be repaired immediately… These problems were pointed out in our 2001 inspection report, and to date, the City of Ann Arbor has done nothing. The situation has since worsened. …Both of these dams [Argo and Geddes] have high hazard potential ratings.” (emphasis added.)

That’s straight from the State of Michigan’s Dam Safety Office–five years ago. Nothing’s been done since then to fix it. HRWC’s not making this issue up, or exaggerating it.

The chronicle posted the letter here:
http://annarborchronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/nov182004deq.pdf

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By: Vivienne Armentrout http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/06/15/dam-questions-dominate-caucus/comment-page-1/#comment-24996 Vivienne Armentrout Sat, 20 Jun 2009 01:25:12 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=22465#comment-24996 Was “Laura” Laura Rubin? Given her position and her authoritative statement, it would be helpful if she identified herself fully. When individuals merely express a personal opinion, I can agree that perhaps an anonymous post is ok (though I don’t prefer them) but it becomes confusing if the comment is representing an “official” position.

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By: Boatman http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/06/15/dam-questions-dominate-caucus/comment-page-1/#comment-24967 Boatman Fri, 19 Jun 2009 20:37:05 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=22465#comment-24967 It is unfortunate that HRWC is being disingenuous concerning the condition of the dam and the cost of repair. As you state, a portion of the dam is suspect, essentially the toe drains in the earthen dam next to the millrace. The article written by Ms. Rubin flatly stated; “Argo Dam is failing,” sounds catastrophic at first blush, and yet the article fails to elaborate on what is failing or provide a means of measurement. This sounds somewhat like chicken-little, whose argument that the “sky is falling” was spurious. It is unfortunate that the integrity of the HRWC organization being scrutinized by an approach to Argo was not well reasoned by the author.

The better problem statement should be similar to this: “the toe drains in the earthen portion of the dam need to be repaired which will have a financial impact on Ann Arbor.” The argument of cost poses somewhat of a conundrum to Ms Rubin. Please consider the added solution of closing off the millrace, which would reduce the immediacy of any threat to the earthen dam. Arguably, this closure might be the cheapest solution. This then begs the question of the cost to repair. You state the repair cost to be $500,000. There are additional voices stating the true cost lies between $200K and $300K, possibly less if the millrace is closed. Your silence on alternative solutions and costs is inopportune, showing both a less then robust analysis on your part as well as adding to the chicken-little style of writing that was evident in the Ann Arbor News.

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By: Laura http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/06/15/dam-questions-dominate-caucus/comment-page-1/#comment-24954 Laura Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:30:11 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=22465#comment-24954 Some people have said that the dam is in good condition. Why does HRWC say that the dam is failing?

Part of the dam, specifically the concrete section, is indeed in good condition. Unfortunately, most people believe this is the full extent of the dam. One aspect they are not considering is the toe drain, which is also a part of the dam. The toe drain is covered under the dam permit and all technical descriptions, as are the gates, chains, mill race, mechanics, etc.

The toe drains are deteriorating and not draining the water in the earthen embankment adequately. These drains reduce the elevation difference, and therefore the water pressure, between the mill race and the river.

The Michigan Department of Environmental Quality is concerned that parts of the earthen embankment will liquefy and fall into the river. The water in the mill race would then rush into the river, carrying loads of sediment with it and creating a “new” channel. This may cause flooding downstream, obstructions and back-ups in the river, and could kill plants and animals.

Moreover, the MDEQ staff have been dogging the City of Ann Arbor to come up with a plan for the dam for more than five years. Over that same time period, staff and budget cuts have led the MDEQ to publicly announce that it would not be able to respond to minor pollution concerns, review wetland permits, or review minor applications for new permit discharges. In short, MDEQ has been forced to take action only on significant environmental dangers. MDEQ cannot afford to fret about minor problems. The fact that they have expressed this raised level of urgency about Argo dam and the risks associated with an embankment collapse causes the Huron River Watershed Council great concern.
Smart people have disagreed with HRWC about the level of hazard the dam presents. Some have looked at the sturdiness of the concrete portions and gone so far as to conclude that the dam is in “excellent condition.”

Some have taken that argument so far as to accuse HRWC of lying about the dam’s condition. They’re both wrong and unfair. Both sides in this debate have looked at available facts and evidence and drawn different conclusions. HRWC stands by its conclusions which are at least as reasonable as concluding, despite the toe drains’ problems, that the dam is in great shape. More important, whatever you call the dam’s condition, the fact remains: a half-million dollar repair job is looming. We have to make a decision now about what to do with this dam.

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By: Feat of Clay http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/06/15/dam-questions-dominate-caucus/comment-page-1/#comment-24830 Feat of Clay Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:13:31 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=22465#comment-24830 Has there been any followup from the HRWC about the fact that its executive director misrepresented facts in a piece in the local paper? That has seriously eroded the organization’s credibility, in my book.

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By: John Floyd http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/06/15/dam-questions-dominate-caucus/comment-page-1/#comment-24754 John Floyd Thu, 18 Jun 2009 04:25:39 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=22465#comment-24754 Ms. Lesko,

When your observation – only 900 people voted for Sandi Smith in a contested election, so 1200 votes is an improvement – is directly on point, mentioning your point is not bad manners. On the other hand, withholding your point, in that context, is a failure of public service and democracy.

I agree with Mr. Dairy’s implied observation that council does not want anyone looking at it or its actions too closely – if at all. This particular theme manifests itself on issues from zoning to PUD’s to the police station to the Staduim Blvd Bridge to the police retirement buyout.

Mike Anglin’s (5th ward) crime of questioning and opposing the policies of this council has resulted in a crude effort to remove him from office. The only solution to this non-responsive council-majority faction is to remove its members, instead. Shining more light on the policies and behaviors of this majority faction will aid in that effort.

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By: Patricia Lesko http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/06/15/dam-questions-dominate-caucus/comment-page-1/#comment-24568 Patricia Lesko Tue, 16 Jun 2009 05:20:29 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=22465#comment-24568 Mr. Dairy,

The GO Ask Voters group is working toward bringing a proposed Charter amendment to the voters. Under the auspices of the amendment, voters would authorize General Obligation Municipal bonds that are repaid in whole or in part by direct taxation. Revenue bonds, emergency bonds and other bonds floated for projects related to infrastructure (sewer and water, for instance) would NEVER be subject to referendum under the auspices of the proposed Charter amendment.

If, for instance, Council can’t find a private developer to build the proposed conference center, and chose, instead, to float general obligation municipal bonds for the project, if we voted to adopt the proposed Charter amendment, such bonds would have to be approved by voters before they could be issued. Council would have to come to voters with a well-crafted explanation as to why they wanted to spend our money on a conference center. Then, we would vote.

As I said at our recent Ward 1 meeting, putting such funding requests on the ballot would NOT result in additional costs to the city unless, of course, Council and city staff were so utterly incapable of planning and so thoroughly disorganized that they couldn’t manage to get the request before voters during any one of the FOUR state-mandated dates on which we go to the polls. In essence, state law allows us to vote once every quarter!

One last note. At that same Ward 1 meeting, Councilmember Sandi Smith raised the point that at the most recent school board election, only 1,200 voters cast ballots. She was afraid that a relatively small number of voters could derail, say, a convention center. What I didn’t point out (for the sake of good manners) is that last August Sandi Smith was delighted to accept the nomination to sit on City Council thanks to the votes of just 900 people out of the 18,000 registered voters who live in the First Ward. Our other Ward 1 Councilmember, Sabra Briere, won her seat with fewer than 350 votes in the primary.

GO Ask Voters is about transparency in government, the expansion of voter rights, and giving voters an opportunity to participate directly in governance. Voter approval of GO Municipal bonds is the law of the land in 44 states. We’ve collected 2,500 signatures, and we’re on target to bring the proposed amendment to Ann Arbor voters!

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