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	<title>Comments on: First &amp; William to Become Greenway?</title>
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	<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/07/06/first-william-to-become-greenway/</link>
	<description>it&#039;s like being there</description>
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		<title>By: Tom Whitaker</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/07/06/first-william-to-become-greenway/comment-page-1/#comment-27600</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Whitaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=23900#comment-27600</guid>
		<description>Regarding [5]: &quot;If the structure truly were intended to be replacement parking, its size would have been tied to the number of spaces expected to be removed from the system at other sites. The reality is that the decisions about the size of the structure didn’t include such considerations, neither by the DDA board nor city council.&quot;

Exactly!

I just went back and re-read the Chronicle coverage of the Council debate from the mid-February meeting where the underground structure was voted on:  &lt;a href=&quot;http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/02/19/dicken-dogs-downtown-no-dreiseitl/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link to Chronicle article&lt;/a&gt;

There were some questions from Councilmember Briere about new parking spaces being added and about the age of other parking structures in the system, but other than that, just about all of the arguments for the structure were based on the perceived need for ADDITIONAL spaces, not replacement of existing ones.

Note also Tom Crawford&#039;s response to Briere&#039;s questions about the DDA&#039;s ability to pay off the bonds and how they would have to increase rates across the board just to make the payments on the bonds.

Just sayin&#039;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding [5]: &#8220;If the structure truly were intended to be replacement parking, its size would have been tied to the number of spaces expected to be removed from the system at other sites. The reality is that the decisions about the size of the structure didn’t include such considerations, neither by the DDA board nor city council.&#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly!</p>
<p>I just went back and re-read the Chronicle coverage of the Council debate from the mid-February meeting where the underground structure was voted on:  <a href="http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/02/19/dicken-dogs-downtown-no-dreiseitl/" rel="nofollow">link to Chronicle article</a></p>
<p>There were some questions from Councilmember Briere about new parking spaces being added and about the age of other parking structures in the system, but other than that, just about all of the arguments for the structure were based on the perceived need for ADDITIONAL spaces, not replacement of existing ones.</p>
<p>Note also Tom Crawford&#8217;s response to Briere&#8217;s questions about the DDA&#8217;s ability to pay off the bonds and how they would have to increase rates across the board just to make the payments on the bonds.</p>
<p>Just sayin&#8217;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Agnew</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/07/06/first-william-to-become-greenway/comment-page-1/#comment-27157</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Agnew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=23900#comment-27157</guid>
		<description>Getting rid a surface lot in the city core is, in my opinion, a giant mistake.  As noted above, it removes $100,000 from the budget of the DDA.  When tax revunues are way down it&#039;s my understanding that the DDA is a supplemental source of income in some ways for the city. That&#039;s the first point.  The second point being, why is it the city&#039;s dream to make it as difficult as possible for a downtown retailer?  As a retailer I can tell you that customers complain to me each and every day about parking.  A surface lot is especially prized.  Some older people, or women alone at night, prefer a surface lot for either access or safety concerns.  Why not leave it as is?  Putting green space in the city core is a waste of space - Ann Arbor is absolutely loaded with greenspace, much of it well within walking distance of downtown.  (Allmendinger Park and West Park spring immediately to mind).   If all of downtown is stripped of parking and turned into cute little parks there will be no tax base to support it.  Buisness is not a dirty word, it&#039;s a necessity.  I know we live in a company town (U of M) which is academically based but we also need local businesses, and there needs to be some practical and reality based foresight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting rid a surface lot in the city core is, in my opinion, a giant mistake.  As noted above, it removes $100,000 from the budget of the DDA.  When tax revunues are way down it&#8217;s my understanding that the DDA is a supplemental source of income in some ways for the city. That&#8217;s the first point.  The second point being, why is it the city&#8217;s dream to make it as difficult as possible for a downtown retailer?  As a retailer I can tell you that customers complain to me each and every day about parking.  A surface lot is especially prized.  Some older people, or women alone at night, prefer a surface lot for either access or safety concerns.  Why not leave it as is?  Putting green space in the city core is a waste of space &#8211; Ann Arbor is absolutely loaded with greenspace, much of it well within walking distance of downtown.  (Allmendinger Park and West Park spring immediately to mind).   If all of downtown is stripped of parking and turned into cute little parks there will be no tax base to support it.  Buisness is not a dirty word, it&#8217;s a necessity.  I know we live in a company town (U of M) which is academically based but we also need local businesses, and there needs to be some practical and reality based foresight.</p>
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		<title>By: UMGrad1234</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/07/06/first-william-to-become-greenway/comment-page-1/#comment-27071</link>
		<dc:creator>UMGrad1234</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 16:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=23900#comment-27071</guid>
		<description>Folks, own downtown retailers are fighting a much more complicated battle. They&#039;re competing not only against the MALLS, where there is seemingly unlimited parking, but rather the INTERNET. Online retail continues to grow despite the recession (http://www.bizreport.com/2009/01/forrester_growth_forecast_for_2009_online_retail_sales.html). This piece speaks frankly about the growth and that it will come at the expense (literally) of bricks and mortar shops. 

Until the DDA, Council and downtown merchants do a real honest-to-goodness objective study of their customer base, and how it is shaped/impacted by parking, we ought to stop spending $50 million at a pop for garages. We have people who own retail demanding that we all pony up millions for their &quot;customers&quot; to park. In Ann Arbor the math is always the same: more parking=more customers and a &quot;vibrant&quot; downtown. This gobblegook is being crammed down the throats of the taxpayers.

Read the DDA minutes posted in late-2008, and you&#039;ll read Roger Hewitt report to the DDA board that parking revenues are FLAT and that demand is about what it was last year. Then, he marches right over to City Council to testify in favor of the library lot garage based on (yes) INCREASED demand for parking. 

A second way to get a handle on parking needs would be to force Council and the DDA to post information on how many of the spots in our publicly-owned parking garages have been given over to developers, or businesses such as Google. Google got all their spots, for instance, but still hasn&#039;t created the number of jobs promised when the spots were so graciously handed over. An unappealing number of the $55,000 per spots in the new library lot will be handed over to that developer, as well.

U of M built the new Arthur Miller theater on top of a large parking lot in North campus, and was then poised to build two 600-car garages in a quiet city neighborhood near the hospital. If our downtown lots are filled with the cars of U of M commuters and students, and retail shoppers (as if) are really being inconvenienced to the point they won&#039;t shop downtown, how&#039;s about our city push U of M to build student parking on the 600 acres of bucolic manicured grounds they own on North Campus? Could that free up, say, 25 percent of the spots in our garages? More?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Folks, own downtown retailers are fighting a much more complicated battle. They&#8217;re competing not only against the MALLS, where there is seemingly unlimited parking, but rather the INTERNET. Online retail continues to grow despite the recession (<a href="http://www.bizreport.com/2009/01/forrester_growth_forecast_for_2009_online_retail_sales.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bizreport.com/2009/01/forrester_growth_forecast_for_2009_online_retail_sales.html</a>). This piece speaks frankly about the growth and that it will come at the expense (literally) of bricks and mortar shops. </p>
<p>Until the DDA, Council and downtown merchants do a real honest-to-goodness objective study of their customer base, and how it is shaped/impacted by parking, we ought to stop spending $50 million at a pop for garages. We have people who own retail demanding that we all pony up millions for their &#8220;customers&#8221; to park. In Ann Arbor the math is always the same: more parking=more customers and a &#8220;vibrant&#8221; downtown. This gobblegook is being crammed down the throats of the taxpayers.</p>
<p>Read the DDA minutes posted in late-2008, and you&#8217;ll read Roger Hewitt report to the DDA board that parking revenues are FLAT and that demand is about what it was last year. Then, he marches right over to City Council to testify in favor of the library lot garage based on (yes) INCREASED demand for parking. </p>
<p>A second way to get a handle on parking needs would be to force Council and the DDA to post information on how many of the spots in our publicly-owned parking garages have been given over to developers, or businesses such as Google. Google got all their spots, for instance, but still hasn&#8217;t created the number of jobs promised when the spots were so graciously handed over. An unappealing number of the $55,000 per spots in the new library lot will be handed over to that developer, as well.</p>
<p>U of M built the new Arthur Miller theater on top of a large parking lot in North campus, and was then poised to build two 600-car garages in a quiet city neighborhood near the hospital. If our downtown lots are filled with the cars of U of M commuters and students, and retail shoppers (as if) are really being inconvenienced to the point they won&#8217;t shop downtown, how&#8217;s about our city push U of M to build student parking on the 600 acres of bucolic manicured grounds they own on North Campus? Could that free up, say, 25 percent of the spots in our garages? More?</p>
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		<title>By: jack sprague</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/07/06/first-william-to-become-greenway/comment-page-1/#comment-27069</link>
		<dc:creator>jack sprague</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 16:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=23900#comment-27069</guid>
		<description>Given that the city needs the revenue from both the downtown merchants and non-retail business in the area, removing surface parking in the area seems horrid. I&#039;m at a loss for such an active move to discourage revenue growth in the city center.

Perhaps the Ann Arbor tax receipts are doing well enough that supporting the merchant community can be a tertiary concern.   I&#039;m just not used to that condition. I&#039;ll have to look at the  budget reports.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given that the city needs the revenue from both the downtown merchants and non-retail business in the area, removing surface parking in the area seems horrid. I&#8217;m at a loss for such an active move to discourage revenue growth in the city center.</p>
<p>Perhaps the Ann Arbor tax receipts are doing well enough that supporting the merchant community can be a tertiary concern.   I&#8217;m just not used to that condition. I&#8217;ll have to look at the  budget reports.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Goldsmith</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/07/06/first-william-to-become-greenway/comment-page-1/#comment-27058</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Goldsmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=23900#comment-27058</guid>
		<description>According to the Ann Arbor News article, the cost for clean up of the site is estimated to be $3 Million, with no funding in sight at this time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to the Ann Arbor News article, the cost for clean up of the site is estimated to be $3 Million, with no funding in sight at this time.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bean</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/07/06/first-william-to-become-greenway/comment-page-1/#comment-27015</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:09:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=23900#comment-27015</guid>
		<description>&quot;Reducing the number of parking spaces in the parking system by the 108 spaces at the First &amp; William lot would help the city make that argument.&quot;

Politically, yes. Legally, not so much. (Obligatory disclaimer: I&#039;m not a lawyer.)

A reduction in existing spaces actually would do nothing to change the city&#039;s responsibility per the Michigan Environmental Protection Act to consider alternatives to the proposal to build the underground parking structure. It also wouldn&#039;t change the fact that the city still hasn&#039;t done a parking demand analysis. 

In terms of simply being truthful about their intentions, city council could identify the additional 547 or so existing spaces that they anticipate being replaced by the new structure. If the structure truly were intended to be replacement parking, its size would have been tied to the number of spaces expected to be removed from the system at other sites. The reality is that the decisions about the size of the structure didn&#039;t include such considerations, neither by the DDA board nor city council.

Politics aside, I still believe that parking demand will soon begin to decrease (if it hasn&#039;t already) and that we may be able to lose the spaces at First and William (and more in the future) and still not need to add additional spaces, partly by better managing the remaining ones. The onus is on the city to demonstrate otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Reducing the number of parking spaces in the parking system by the 108 spaces at the First &amp; William lot would help the city make that argument.&#8221;</p>
<p>Politically, yes. Legally, not so much. (Obligatory disclaimer: I&#8217;m not a lawyer.)</p>
<p>A reduction in existing spaces actually would do nothing to change the city&#8217;s responsibility per the Michigan Environmental Protection Act to consider alternatives to the proposal to build the underground parking structure. It also wouldn&#8217;t change the fact that the city still hasn&#8217;t done a parking demand analysis. </p>
<p>In terms of simply being truthful about their intentions, city council could identify the additional 547 or so existing spaces that they anticipate being replaced by the new structure. If the structure truly were intended to be replacement parking, its size would have been tied to the number of spaces expected to be removed from the system at other sites. The reality is that the decisions about the size of the structure didn&#8217;t include such considerations, neither by the DDA board nor city council.</p>
<p>Politics aside, I still believe that parking demand will soon begin to decrease (if it hasn&#8217;t already) and that we may be able to lose the spaces at First and William (and more in the future) and still not need to add additional spaces, partly by better managing the remaining ones. The onus is on the city to demonstrate otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Kris</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/07/06/first-william-to-become-greenway/comment-page-1/#comment-27012</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 00:46:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=23900#comment-27012</guid>
		<description>The underground pollution is going to be the wild card as pollutants have been found in all surrounding areas and this has long been an industrial area of the city (not to mention chemicals that would have been washed into the creek from other areas).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The underground pollution is going to be the wild card as pollutants have been found in all surrounding areas and this has long been an industrial area of the city (not to mention chemicals that would have been washed into the creek from other areas).</p>
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		<title>By: Vivienne Armentrout</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/07/06/first-william-to-become-greenway/comment-page-1/#comment-26977</link>
		<dc:creator>Vivienne Armentrout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=23900#comment-26977</guid>
		<description>Excellent history and analysis.  With regard to motivation (&quot;Why Now&quot;?), conspiracy theorists might note that the city has been silent for a number of months about the fate of 415 W. Washington.  Greenway advocates (including me) would like to see a substantial part of that property undeveloped so that the floodplain is not encumbered with structures and a public path (greenway) could be included.  You&#039;ll recall that the RFP process did not end in an award and the committee is presumably still pondering the possibilities (among which is another Morningside development). One of the members of that committee is currently running against Mike Anglin for the 5th ward council seat.

Carsten Hohnke was once on record in support of a relatively benign resolution of the 415 W. Washington question, and he has a number of constituents with strong feelings about that property.  His support of a First &amp; William park might be a first move to facilitate a change in position.

I have no information to support this idea, just a habit of seeing some of the programmatic effects of decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent history and analysis.  With regard to motivation (&#8220;Why Now&#8221;?), conspiracy theorists might note that the city has been silent for a number of months about the fate of 415 W. Washington.  Greenway advocates (including me) would like to see a substantial part of that property undeveloped so that the floodplain is not encumbered with structures and a public path (greenway) could be included.  You&#8217;ll recall that the RFP process did not end in an award and the committee is presumably still pondering the possibilities (among which is another Morningside development). One of the members of that committee is currently running against Mike Anglin for the 5th ward council seat.</p>
<p>Carsten Hohnke was once on record in support of a relatively benign resolution of the 415 W. Washington question, and he has a number of constituents with strong feelings about that property.  His support of a First &amp; William park might be a first move to facilitate a change in position.</p>
<p>I have no information to support this idea, just a habit of seeing some of the programmatic effects of decisions.</p>
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		<title>By: Laszlo Gunderud</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/07/06/first-william-to-become-greenway/comment-page-1/#comment-26971</link>
		<dc:creator>Laszlo Gunderud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=23900#comment-26971</guid>
		<description>I look forward to more green space in the downtown area. With all of the living space being added, these residents will need a close green spot to have a quick picnic! The other thing they need is more access to groceries - perhaps a delivery oriented mini-Kroger or mini-Buschs would be helpful in that space Morningside has been trying to lease out...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I look forward to more green space in the downtown area. With all of the living space being added, these residents will need a close green spot to have a quick picnic! The other thing they need is more access to groceries &#8211; perhaps a delivery oriented mini-Kroger or mini-Buschs would be helpful in that space Morningside has been trying to lease out&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: sal</title>
		<link>http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/07/06/first-william-to-become-greenway/comment-page-1/#comment-26954</link>
		<dc:creator>sal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=23900#comment-26954</guid>
		<description>Dave,

Fine analysis of a complex issue...done over a holiday weekend at that.  Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,</p>
<p>Fine analysis of a complex issue&#8230;done over a holiday weekend at that.  Thank you.</p>
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