Comments on: The Constitution of Historic Districts http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/24/the-constitution-of-historic-districts/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-constitution-of-historic-districts it's like being there Tue, 16 Sep 2014 04:56:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.2 By: David Cahill http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/24/the-constitution-of-historic-districts/comment-page-1/#comment-48500 David Cahill Sun, 27 Jun 2010 20:15:44 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45455#comment-48500 Murph, I know you used to be the planner for the City of Ypsilanti. Do you happen to know if any recent projects in Ypsi took advantage of these historic preservation tax credits? If you don’t know, could you refer me to someone who might?

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By: Dave Askins http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/24/the-constitution-of-historic-districts/comment-page-1/#comment-48495 Dave Askins Sun, 27 Jun 2010 16:09:50 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45455#comment-48495 Re: [12]

The statute quoted says, “…”

I’m not finding that exact quote anywhere. Can you point specifically to it? Or is that meant as a paraphrase?

In any case, I don’t the argument rests on what may be recorded. I think the argument that establishment of a local historic creates an easement rests on the definition of “historic preservation easement” in the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act which, in paraphrased form, is along the lines of: A historic preservation easement is a limitation on land use arising from a few different circumstances, one of which is the establishment of a local historic district.

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By: Murph http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/24/the-constitution-of-historic-districts/comment-page-1/#comment-48494 Murph Sun, 27 Jun 2010 14:22:58 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45455#comment-48494 Westsider – it’s exactly that second point that I’m questioning as accurate.

The statute quoted says, “A historic preservation easement may only be recorded on a property that is listed on the National Register or located within a local historic district.” The easement is an extra layer that may be created on a property already in a district – not something which is automatically created by the inclusion in a district. The causality can’t be run backwards to show equivalency.

This is why I think the de facto takings argument is obfuscatory nonsense. And, as David C. notes, that leaves a regulatory takings argument, and this issue has long since been settled as a valid exercise of regulatory power to advance a legitimate public interest.

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By: David Cahill http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/24/the-constitution-of-historic-districts/comment-page-1/#comment-48463 David Cahill Sat, 26 Jun 2010 11:50:02 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45455#comment-48463 A better analogy is that a historic district is just another kind of zoning. Rezoning something does not create a “taking”.

Developers’ lawyers will make all kinds of arguments in hopes that someone, somewhere, will believe some of them. In reality, historic districts are perfectly proper ways of promoting the public interest.

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By: Westsider http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/24/the-constitution-of-historic-districts/comment-page-1/#comment-48421 Westsider Fri, 25 Jun 2010 17:12:05 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45455#comment-48421 Murph – I think your second * point is off a bit. The logic appears to be:

- Creation of a historic district creates a historic preservation easement.
- A historic preservation easement is by definition of the law an interest in the property (ie. a partial ownership of the property). This occurs with or without recording the interest with the register of deeds even though the interest is recordable.
- If the City creates the interest in the property (which is conveyable) by creating the historic preservation easement, they have taken for themselves a partial ownership of the property. It is that partial ownership that they may be required to compensate the owners for.

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By: Murph http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/24/the-constitution-of-historic-districts/comment-page-1/#comment-48420 Murph Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:26:00 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45455#comment-48420 I’m not a lawyer, but I’m a little skeptical of the de facto takings argument.

If I follow, it goes something like,
* a historic preservation easement is a conveyance of property
* recording a historic preservation easement requires that the property be in a local historic district.
* therefore, a local historic district is a conveyance of land, and an involuntary conveyance of property is a takings.

Let’s try this in another context:
* my cat likes to scratch my dog in the face
* my cat requires feeding
* therefore, all things that require feeding like to scratch my dog in the face.

Hmmm.

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By: Dave Askins http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/24/the-constitution-of-historic-districts/comment-page-1/#comment-48414 Dave Askins Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:42:41 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45455#comment-48414 Re: [1] and [5]

Steve,

I take it you’re basing your conclusion on the following from the Uniform Condemnation Procedures Act:

(2) The general effects of a project for which property is taken, whether actual or anticipated, that in varying degrees are experienced by the general public or by property owners from whom no property is taken, shall not be considered in determining just compensation. A special effect of the project on the owner’s property that, standing alone, would constitute a taking of private property under section 2 of article X of the state constitution of 1963 shall be considered in determining just compensation. To the extent that the detrimental effects of a project are considered to determine just compensation, they may be offset by consideration of the beneficial effects of the project.

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By: Dave Askins http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/24/the-constitution-of-historic-districts/comment-page-1/#comment-48413 Dave Askins Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:06:56 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45455#comment-48413 Re: [6] And the Heritage Row vote.

If you break down the deliberations in finer detail, a vote for Heritage Row, but against postponement makes somewhat more sense.

The initial deliberations had it 7-4 with Kunselman indicating he’d vote no — his indication of a no vote came before the mayor weighed in. It was after the remarks by the mayor [which cited the matter-of-right project that had already been approved as a possible undesirable consequence of voting against Heritage Row] that Kunselman said he’d like more information about the matter-of-right project. Kunselman noted he not sitting on the city council when that matter-of-right project had been approved.

Kunselman asked for a postponement. As an alternative, he was given a brief recess to the meeting. When the council came back from the recess, the vote on the postponement was taken, it failed, and Kunselman then voted no on the project.

For councilmembers who voted for the project but against the postponement, I think the they likely felt that if Kunselman’s inspection of the matter-of-right plans during the recess were not sufficient to change his vote from no to yes, then an additional two weeks would not have made any difference.

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By: Oksana Posa http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/24/the-constitution-of-historic-districts/comment-page-1/#comment-48410 Oksana Posa Fri, 25 Jun 2010 07:05:08 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45455#comment-48410 Can somebody help me to solve the puzzle of the City Council vote on June,21?
Seven Council members said they support Heritage Row and will vote “YES”. Three stated their position as “NO”
Ward 3 Stephen Kunselman advised the Council that he is not properly informed and if he does not get two weeks delay to study the materials, he will vote “NO”(Go figure!).
Then, an interesting political move: the majority of the Council votes against the two weeks delay, thus ensuring that Mr.Kunselman’s swing vote kills the project.
Where’s the logic?
Why bother voting “YES” on Heritage Row and “NO” on giving Mr. Kunselman a chance to make an informed decision (whatever it might’ve been)?
I’d like to hear the explanation from the Mayor and/or the Council members who exhibited this dual personality behavior.
Thank you!

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By: Steve Borgsdorf http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/24/the-constitution-of-historic-districts/comment-page-1/#comment-48390 Steve Borgsdorf Thu, 24 Jun 2010 18:01:04 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45455#comment-48390 CMadler I think your example is inapposite. A closer hypothetical would be to assume that I rezoned 250 of your acres to permit commercial development. As a result, the value of the entire parcel went up. So even if the rezoning is a “taking” the compensation owed is $0.

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