Comments on: DDA OKs Development Grant, Parking Leases http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/06/09/dda-oks-development-grant-parking-leases/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=dda-oks-development-grant-parking-leases it's like being there Tue, 16 Sep 2014 04:56:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.2 By: Tom http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/06/09/dda-oks-development-grant-parking-leases/comment-page-1/#comment-108321 Tom Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:43:30 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=89826#comment-108321 Oh–Did I forget to mention that Ellis Square is in an historic district? Oops.

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By: Tom http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/06/09/dda-oks-development-grant-parking-leases/comment-page-1/#comment-108315 Tom Mon, 18 Jun 2012 20:31:06 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=89826#comment-108315 @19:
How about Ellis Square in Savannah, GA, population 136,000?

Ellis Square was one of the originally platted squares in the city, but similar to Ann Arbor’s court house square, it was demolished in 1955 to make way for “progress”–in this case, a four-story parking garage which was a blight on an otherwise lovely, historic downtown for decades.

In 2005, Savannah finally demolished the eyesore parking garage and replaced it with an underground structure. On top–you guessed it–they built a new Ellis Square complete with 30′ transplanted live oak trees, a fountain for viewing and cooling off in, a visitor center, and restrooms. This, in spite of the fact that there are several other public squares and parks within a short walking distance of this location.

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By: Will Hathaway http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/06/09/dda-oks-development-grant-parking-leases/comment-page-1/#comment-106618 Will Hathaway Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:57:50 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=89826#comment-106618 I think that we may have discovered a new T-shirt slogan: “Ann Arbor – Where calling someone disingenuous is fighting words!”

The definition is “to not be candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.” I think that everyone involved in this debate is sincere in wanting a successful downtown. We may or may not disagree – hopefully we can find consensus. I don’t sense that anyone involved is pretending to know less about something than they really do. On the contrary, in Ann Arbor it is more likely that someone might err in the other direction.

Because this dialogue began with my slide show about the idea of a “Library Green,” I’d like to share the link to that presentation on Youtube. It is now updated to incorporate the constructive criticism offered by Mayor Hieftje and Council Member Smith during the June 6 DDA meeting. Here is the link: [link]

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By: Steve Bean http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/06/09/dda-oks-development-grant-parking-leases/comment-page-1/#comment-106614 Steve Bean Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:14:17 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=89826#comment-106614 @15: Sandi, have you ruled out an event space, or did you just neglect to mention such usage in your comment? (By the way, a simple omission doesn’t make your comment disingenuous. In any case, you might want to forego that term when communicating with residents.)

How would you define “successful” relative to this space? How would you describe “what’s possible”? Also, do you have suggestions for park spaces to research in comparably-sized cities?

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By: Alan Goldsmith http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/06/09/dda-oks-development-grant-parking-leases/comment-page-1/#comment-106557 Alan Goldsmith Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:52:58 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=89826#comment-106557 “There are over 2000 acres of parkland just within the City! I often walk my dogs through West Park, Bandemer, the new Argo Cascades or just through the neighborhoods. They always enjoy the trip.”

As long as Sandi Smith’s dogs are content I guess we should move on.

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By: Alan Goldsmith http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/06/09/dda-oks-development-grant-parking-leases/comment-page-1/#comment-106556 Alan Goldsmith Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:52:10 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=89826#comment-106556 “He then went on to describe how in his time as mayor, he’d been very active in adding parkland to the city.”

As well as pushing legal loopholes to give away parkland via ‘leases’ and going around the intent of the law that requires a vote of the public for this to happen, ala the Fuller Road Parkland Giveaway attempt.

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By: Tom Brandt http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/06/09/dda-oks-development-grant-parking-leases/comment-page-1/#comment-106555 Tom Brandt Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:50:55 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=89826#comment-106555 I’m not sure that comparing the population of Detroit with Ann Arbor when talking about Campus Martius and a possible park on the Library Lot is relevant. Not that many people live near Campus Martius, but it is heavily used by people who work in area. I think the same situation would obtain in downtown Ann Arbor – a park on the Library Lot would be heavily used by people who work downtown.

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By: Sandi Smith http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/06/09/dda-oks-development-grant-parking-leases/comment-page-1/#comment-106537 Sandi Smith Tue, 12 Jun 2012 13:43:46 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=89826#comment-106537 To be clear, I am not against parks or public open space or even additional open space on that block. I want to be mindful that whatever we do, it is a successful space – unlike the other park that exists on that same block.

What I found to be disingenuous about the slide show  was the series of photos portraying what could never be on that block. Each picture showed a large public space, usually green, dotted with lots of people. They were photos taken in large cities like New York, Houston and even Detroit. Each of these parks were surrounded by tall buildings, full of people and eyes on the park: density. 

Each city has a much greater population than Ann Arbor. Even Detroit is seven times the size! I don’t have daytime visitor/employee stats at hand, but all the example cities dwarf Ann Arbor. There are less than 5000 people living in the DDA district, and probably less than a 100 who live on that block.
It is also mostly bounded by historic districts. It is not that a park is an incompatible use with an historic district, it is that the necessary density to make a park work can never be built there because of the restrictions in place imposed by the historic district regulations.

The DDA effort called Connecting William Street is currently underway. To date we have conducted a preliminary survey (with ~ 2000 respondents) and 3 out of 4 speaker series that have been well attended. This is only the first phase of effort. There will be ample opportunity for robust public input in the coming months.

BTW: I both live and work in downtown Ann Arbor. I have ample ways to enjoy open space and don’t feel cheated about my share of it. There are over 2000 acres of parkland just within the City! I often walk my dogs through West Park, Bandemer, the new Argo Cascades or just through the neighborhoods. They always enjoy the trip.

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By: Tom http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/06/09/dda-oks-development-grant-parking-leases/comment-page-1/#comment-106359 Tom Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:18:07 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=89826#comment-106359 Advocates for a public space downtown have created a website with a lot of additional information: a2centralpark.org

There’s also a link on the site for donating towards the cost of their block party event on July 14th.

I’ve been very impressed with the open and honest communications these citizens have engaged in. They put their vision on the web, spoken at numerous public meetings, written op-eds, and most impressively, have actually gone out and met with numerous individuals, from business owners and developers, to public officials—including the library board and staff, including those that they knew were opposed to their idea. They have demonstrated the courage of their convictions and are willing to take the slings and arrows that are inevitably thrown at those who stand up for something in public.

This is in marked contrast to our local leaders who often work behind closed doors via appointees and consultants to manipulate outcomes for pet projects like conference centers, train stations, massive commuter transit systems, golf course privatizations and city hall expansions. For the Mayor and Council Member Smith to call these good citizens disingenuous is the epitome of irony.

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By: Alice Ralph http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/06/09/dda-oks-development-grant-parking-leases/comment-page-1/#comment-106213 Alice Ralph Mon, 11 Jun 2012 01:43:58 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=89826#comment-106213 In regard to the important opportunities represented by concurrent development of green open space with building development, it’s tempting to say “what they said…”. I spent a few hours on Main Street at an information table as part of Green Fair last Friday. Our local penchant for public activities downtown has developed a public demand for spaces that better accommodate them. These spaces need to be as diverse as the activities themselves, not just streets blocked off for a few hours. (Although, I do recognize how appealing it is for people to dominate a space that is usually dominated by vehicles!) With all the ‘al fresco’ dining and ‘waiting-in-line-ing’, it is sometimes difficult to promenade in Main Street’s Dean Promenade!
That’s why the Diag is not appropriate for civic expression. That’s why we don’t see music performances in Sculpture Plaza. And that’s why noon concerts in Liberty Plaza attract crowds, but still is viewed as a “problem”. And events at the Farmers Market have varying success. One size or type of space does not well suit all purposes.
For three evenings last week, certain local downtown businesses hosted a series of site-specific dances. Every evening was sold out, but anyone in the public right-of-way could get a glimpse of this creative event, or even walk with [or through] it. The finale was in an unpaved parking lot that might be part of a green urban connector trail–transforming blight to beauty. We only have to stop thinking about what “we can’t do” and start thinking how, and where, to do what we know is good for us.

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