Comments on: How Low Can Argo Flow Go? it's like being there Tue, 16 Sep 2014 04:56:38 +0000 hourly 1 By: Edward Vielmetti Edward Vielmetti Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:00:33 +0000 Water levels downstream of Argo are showing characteristically wide variations (oscillating between 150 cfs and 20 cfs) and have been doing this mid-day August 31. A link with a graph here: [link]

By: tim tim Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:58:30 +0000 In my opinion the potential conflict between anglers and whitewater kayakers is completely blown out of proportion by misunderstanding and ignorance. I really hope the State considers this when they make their decision.

There are urban communities all across this country that face dam removal and somehow are able to accommodate whitewater kayakers and fisherman. Neither present environmental problems for streams if improvements are designed and built correctly, and neither group alone will make much of an economic contribution.

By: Judith Greenbaum Judith Greenbaum Tue, 14 Aug 2012 17:11:47 +0000 We have had extreme drought conditions for weeks, hopefully, a rare situation. I suggest we not change too much now until we see what happens the next year.

By: Paul Christensen Paul Christensen Mon, 06 Aug 2012 04:09:35 +0000 Hi Dave,
I would like to comment about the dam operation.
I have personally witnessed the operation at Argo Dam and seen the controls.
Each gate at Argo has infinite adjustment. There is a dial that can be set at any position and there is no ratchet. The dial is marked in 10ths of a foot and the operator typically sets the dial at those marks but can set the dials between the marks.

The dam operator indicated to me that the controls at Barton are similar.

By: Paul Christensen Paul Christensen Mon, 06 Aug 2012 00:56:38 +0000 Hello,
Thanks very much for investigating and writing this very informative article.
I would like to add a few comments.
1. Part of the reason for the recent sawtooth activity is due to the manual operation of both dams.
As you know I have been hanging out near argo dam a lot lately. One day, the dam operator showed up (the guy who actually operates the dam, not a bureaucrat) I got the chance to speak with him at length. He even let me blow the horn. During the period of extreme low flow he was operating both dams manually because the automatic operation was not working. He said they were making adjustments every few hours instead of the normal automatic operation which makes fine adjustments all the time.
2. I do not believe the stop log had any effect on flow rate through the cascades. The stop log probably decreased the cross sectional area of flow but increased the velocity. I am working on a system to actually measure the flow rate through the entrance to the cascades. It should be fairly easy since the cross sectional area is easy to measure when the channel is rectangular.
3. Edward, there is a gauge on both Barton pond and Argo pond. The data is recorded by the dam operators. The data is not available online in real time but is available in print. I have lots of data from past years. I am sure you could get the current data if you asked.

Thanks again for the article.

By: Dave Askins Dave Askins Mon, 06 Aug 2012 00:48:54 +0000 Paul,

I’ve added a link in the article to an extract from a schematic provided by MichCon depicting possible locations for the whitewater amenities, and included it here as well: [link]. I believe that since those schematics were drawn, the locations have been moved upstream a bit to reduce potential for Cascades versus Whitewater user conflicts. So take the drawing as illustrating the concept as opposed to the construction drawings or what was included in the permit application.

As for the bouncing around, it’s my understanding that the dam gates don’t have an infinite number of positions to which they can be opened, but instead ratchet between settings that correspond, for example, to 0, 25, 50, 100 and greater cfs. So the coarseness in available control of the gates is reflected in the flow variation.

By: Paul Courant Paul Courant Sun, 05 Aug 2012 22:55:08 +0000 This is a great article, although it’s still not clear to me why the water level has to bounce around so much, as it continues to do. Also, it would be great to have a map or diagram or something to see how the whitewater scheme (excuse me, amenity) is supposed to work.

By: Edward Vielmetti Edward Vielmetti Sun, 05 Aug 2012 19:18:25 +0000 This would all be easier to make sense of if there were a gauge on Barton Pond and a gauge on Argo Pond, so that water levels could be reviewed directly and not guessed at.