Comments on: Column: Notre Dame Sells Out Rivalry, Fans http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/09/28/column-notre-dame-sells-out-rivalry-fans/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=column-notre-dame-sells-out-rivalry-fans it's like being there Tue, 16 Sep 2014 04:56:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.2 By: John U. Bacon http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/09/28/column-notre-dame-sells-out-rivalry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-148341 John U. Bacon Sat, 17 Nov 2012 18:04:53 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=97637#comment-148341 Bob,

Thanks for the careful re-reading, and not blowing up my very small point about a couple letters into something bigger about the university itself I did not intend.

And hey, hats off to the Irish for this remarkable season. Bet you’re enjoying a fun ride.

-JUB

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By: Bob http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/09/28/column-notre-dame-sells-out-rivalry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-147902 Bob Sat, 17 Nov 2012 03:06:25 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=97637#comment-147902 Never mind! Missed part of the sentence. No wonder it didn’t seem to make sense!

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By: Bob http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/09/28/column-notre-dame-sells-out-rivalry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-147901 Bob Sat, 17 Nov 2012 03:04:44 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=97637#comment-147901 Regarding your last sentence in your latest comment, are you implying that Notre Dame itself (i.e. the administration, the decision makers, etc.) are self-righteously uninformed? You sure seem to (despite saying you admire ND’s administration a sentence earlier). If you didn’t mean to, perhaps you’d like to qualify that a bit better.

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By: John U. Bacon http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/09/28/column-notre-dame-sells-out-rivalry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-128276 John U. Bacon Fri, 12 Oct 2012 04:24:51 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=97637#comment-128276 Against my better judgment — and virtually all common sense — I’m responding to readers of this piece, and for the last time.

Regarding Mr. Skinpounder’s claims, yes, it is true that Fielding Yost generally worked against Notre Dame and especially Knute Rockne — and that was at least partly due to his anti-Catholic bias, which I started writing about in 1996. (Please see my earlier letter listing my articles on Notre Dame.) But Yost did not keep Notre Dame out of the bowl games. Notre Dame did that, from 1925 to 1970. Likewise, I am aware of few schools which kept track of graduation rates at the time, and have never seen any record of Yost raising this issue. Further, Yost was the UM athletic director who rescheduled Notre Dame for the 1942 and 1943 seasons, before he stepped down in 1941.

A far better question is: Why am I responding to someone who claims his name is Skinpounder? I have no good answer to that one.

Regarding the comments of Mr. McGuinness (and my apologies for referring to you as Mr. Cramer, earlier, as you note), let me start by addressing your claim of my ‘Michigan-centric’ view of the world. While I am undeniably proud of my alma mater, my many articles on Notre Dame, if you’d read the ones I suggested above, would show your claim to be false, especially those which are justly admiring of Notre Dame’s unique role in college football, and critical of Yost and Crisler’s anti-Catholic bias. (Your comment also suggests you haven’t read my last book, which was unafraid to point out when Michigan fell short of its ideals.)

I agree with you that Michigan — and all other nationally respected teams — should not schedule FCS opponents, which I’ve underscored many times in my articles and my last book. But if you believe Notre Dame is magically free from greed, you have not given much consideration to its long-standing NBC contract, which for years was the most lucrative in college football.

As to how that applies to Notre Dame’s decision to join the ACC, you are right that I don’t have exact figures. That’s because Notre Dame, being a private school, does not need to divulge them, and almost never does. But common sense would suggest a few things: Notre Dame did not decide to move its non-football teams from the Big East to the ACC to lose money; Notre Dame did not agree to increase its football games with the ACC from three to five (which is why Notre Dame ended the Michigan series)without the ACC paying handsomely for the privilege; and competing in the ACC will be much more costly for Notre Dame’s athletes (in time and energy) in all sports than it would be in the Big Ten. (Why Ms. Livesay claims otherwise is not clear to me. I will bet you this: Notre Dame did not ask any of its athletes before making the decision, and I further bet few are looking forward to those exhausting road trips.)

There are many things I admire about Notre Dame, its history, its administration, its football program and its fans, and my 16 years of writing on Notre Dame reflects these views. But uninformed self-righteousness is not among them.

-JUB

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By: Mary Livesay http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/09/28/column-notre-dame-sells-out-rivalry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-127366 Mary Livesay Sun, 07 Oct 2012 02:11:14 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=97637#comment-127366 Excellent comments from Kevin. John I think your frustration at losing one of Michigan’s most exciting non-conference games is misdirected. Kevin is right the acc makes more sense for all the athletes, female and male at Notre Dame than did joining the B1G Ten. Go Blue (and Irish).

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By: Kevin McGuinness http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/09/28/column-notre-dame-sells-out-rivalry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-127035 Kevin McGuinness Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:16:22 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=97637#comment-127035 John,thanks for your response to what I assume were my (Kevin McGuinness not Mr Cramer) comments regarding all the student athletes. I did not know that a decision to join the big ten was still on the table. I was talking to the decision to drop the Big East for the ACC in other sports and form a non-conference agreement with ACC. I should have realized I was speaking to someone with a Michigan centric view of the world. Piety is a strange way to describe a concern for student athletes or academic standards for athletes. I am pleased that Notre Dame did not adopt the Michigan model of being a member of the BIg Ten and then filling most of the rest of the schedule with uncompetitive teams and Division IAA teams (Eastern, Central, UMass Appalachian Sate, etc.) that do not require reciprocal home games allowing Michigan to cash in (greed?) on more home games while insulting their fans with the most boring of Athletic events.

But your response did not address my main question to what are facts to support your main assertion that greed had anything to do with dropping the Michigan contract. My assumption is Michigan and Notre Dame will play again in the future, it just will not be an annual event for the time being.

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By: TJ http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/09/28/column-notre-dame-sells-out-rivalry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-127034 TJ Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:14:48 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=97637#comment-127034 Fielding Yost, really? He died in 1946. He stopped coaching football in 1926 and retired as UM’s athletic director in 1940. Skinpounder must be REALLY old and carry quite a grudge if his/her “as many years as i can remember” is referring to Yost’s career! Perhaps Yost deserves it, but he’s been gone from UM sports for 72 years (or at least 66)…

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By: Rod Johnson http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/09/28/column-notre-dame-sells-out-rivalry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-126867 Rod Johnson Thu, 04 Oct 2012 18:05:13 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=97637#comment-126867 Skinpounder means Fielding Yost.

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By: John U. Bacon http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/09/28/column-notre-dame-sells-out-rivalry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-126856 John U. Bacon Thu, 04 Oct 2012 15:58:48 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=97637#comment-126856 Well, as they say, if you’re going to eat the horse, you might as well eat the tail. So I’ll finish these responses, and call it good.

Mr. Skinpounder (assuming that is your real name), I have read, interviewed, written and researched this rivalry probably more than anyone this side of John Kryk, the author of the authoritative “Natural Enemies” (who also vetted this column for accuracy), yet I have no idea to whom you are referring when you cite this “Head of the University of Michigan” and all his or her evil acts. It describes no one I’ve heard of.

Mr. Cramer, you make some good points, but if Notre Dame’s first concern was the well-being of its student-athletes, the solution would be very simple: Join the Big Ten, and minimize travel, instead of joining the ACC, which maximizes travel (to Miami, Boston, and other far flung stops). (The Notre Dame faculty has been clear about its desire to join the Big Ten and its famed CIC, which fosters cooperation among Big Ten faculty.)

You can call Notre Dame’s decision to join the ACC and drop Michigan a lot of things, but inspired by academic or athletic piety, it was not.

-JUB

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By: Chuc Presley-Clubb http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/09/28/column-notre-dame-sells-out-rivalry-fans/comment-page-1/#comment-126851 Chuc Presley-Clubb Thu, 04 Oct 2012 15:17:01 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=97637#comment-126851 I’m a born and bred North Carolina boy! I was born right in the heart of Tobacco Road! In this part of the south you are a fan of one of the four North Carolina ACC teams—North Carolina “Tar Heels”, Duke “Blue Devils”, Wake Forest “Demon Deacons” or North Carolina State “Wolfpack”! We welcome Notre Dame “Fighting Irish” to the academically and athletically gifted Atlantic Coast Conference!

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