Comments on: Column: The Case for Free Public Schools http://annarborchronicle.com/2013/08/09/column-the-case-for-free-public-schools/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=column-the-case-for-free-public-schools it's like being there Tue, 16 Sep 2014 04:56:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.2 By: John Floyd http://annarborchronicle.com/2013/08/09/column-the-case-for-free-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-261778 John Floyd Fri, 16 Aug 2013 03:30:15 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=118182#comment-261778 I echo the comments to the effect that ultimately, this issue has to be solved in Lansing, and that the individuals now holding the reigns of state government power would do well to reconsider their spending priorities.

I would support releasing non-violent low-level street drug users from prison, and channeling any resulting savings into K-12 education.

BTW, since on-line education has no marginal costs , why are students charged anything for taking on-line classes?

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By: Vivienne Armentrout http://annarborchronicle.com/2013/08/09/column-the-case-for-free-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-261634 Vivienne Armentrout Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:37:05 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=118182#comment-261634 Re (12): Mr. Panitch, I don’t have any “constituents”, since I hold no elected position.

Actually, I’m very much an “on the one hand, on the other hand” person and I think I understood the reasoning behind the additional fee. I just didn’t agree that it merited going against a very basic principle.

I’m glad that the board decided not to take that step.

As an aside, I have studied and reflected on the concept of fees for services for a long time. I was formerly on the Board of Commissioners and prior to that on a budget review committee for the City of Ann Arbor that met for over a year to consider revenue and budget cut options. There is a lot to be said about fees for basic services, but this isn’t the place.

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By: Roger Kuhlman http://annarborchronicle.com/2013/08/09/column-the-case-for-free-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-261605 Roger Kuhlman Thu, 15 Aug 2013 06:33:07 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=118182#comment-261605 The real problem here is that AAPS spends excessively and can not do proper budgeting. They always go with lavish and expensive solutions when cheaper alternative would do. I wonder when the AAPS BOE is going to discover the fact that the taxpayers of the district are important stakeholders in the business of education. Many of us taxpayers can not afford the very high city property taxes we have to pay.

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By: Jack Panitch http://annarborchronicle.com/2013/08/09/column-the-case-for-free-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-261596 Jack Panitch Thu, 15 Aug 2013 05:02:48 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=118182#comment-261596 Ruth, I think Vivienne had a very well-articulated argument, too. And I think you know me well enough to know that my thinking is very similar to hers and yours on this type of issue. But my training is very different. The first year of law school trains you to isolate your preconceptions and move beyond them in an effort for truth, justice and the American way. That’s what I do, and I, too, make no apologies for that.

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By: Ruth Kraut http://annarborchronicle.com/2013/08/09/column-the-case-for-free-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-261591 Ruth Kraut Thu, 15 Aug 2013 04:49:09 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=118182#comment-261591 Jack, I think Vivienne had a very well-articulated argument.

But in any case, I was not (and will not, necessarily, in this column) try to be “balanced” or “see both sides”–because it’s a column, and meant to be analytic.

In this case, however, I think I did get to hear both sides. I heard the board speak extensively, at several meetings, about the idea of a fee for students who take a seventh hour. I didn’t hear–for instance–a single board member speak about equity concerns between the number of “free” credits a Skyline student could take versus the number of “free” credits a Huron or Pioneer student could take. I’m not a lawyer, and I don’t even play one on tv, but that doesn’t mean I don’t have an opinion that I’ll share in public.

I am glad that the school board has come to its senses. I hope that “sending something to the planning committee” in this case is a way of saving face and burying the idea. And I hope that next we will be looking at the fees for online classes and CRs, and the conditions under which those could rightly be imposed–or should also be cancelled.

And at the same time, [6] Topher is correct that we need to keep advocating at the state level for adequate school funding, so that we don’t get into these kinds of issues.

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By: Jack Panitch http://annarborchronicle.com/2013/08/09/column-the-case-for-free-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-261589 Jack Panitch Thu, 15 Aug 2013 04:40:41 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=118182#comment-261589 Re (9): I see a lot of heartfelt words in the comment (I’m not referring to Ruth’s article) without any assessment of facts that don’t support the position or any attempt to understand the opposing viewpoint. Ms. Armentrout, I don’t believe I am a constituent of yours. Listening to all sides before making a decision clearly isn’t of value to you in this particular instance for whatever reason. “Legal argument” or “policy prescription,” it would inarguably be bad policy to make decisions based on hearing one side of an issue. A majority of seven people — seven people with the best interests of the students of the Ann Arbor Public Schools in mind in everything they do — made this decision. And yet, the Board of Education just voted unanimously this evening to rescind the $100 fee for further study. Depending on the facts and reasoning, I might agree with you and Ruth. I don’t know. One thing I promise you though: unless I have to make a call on the spot, I will always listen to both sides before making a decision. I recognize not everyone follows this policy.

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By: Ruth Kraut http://annarborchronicle.com/2013/08/09/column-the-case-for-free-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-261587 Ruth Kraut Thu, 15 Aug 2013 04:29:43 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=118182#comment-261587 It looks like the school board voted tonight to rescind the 7th hour fee. Maybe their legal counsel had second thoughts: [link]

I still don’t really understand why (or under what conditions) students have to pay a $250 fee for online classes or community resource classes that they get credit for–or why that would be different from the 7th hour fees. Is it only if students take an eighth hour? Is it only if they do it during the summer? Those classes also show up on the students’ transcripts. Does anybody understand this?

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By: Dan Ezekiel http://annarborchronicle.com/2013/08/09/column-the-case-for-free-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-261541 Dan Ezekiel Wed, 14 Aug 2013 22:49:08 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=118182#comment-261541 “The public schools have long been the great equalizer and mixer of diverse demographics in communities. One valuable lesson that students (or, as we used to call them, pupils) learned was that people who were different from them were also human beings who could even be befriended and respected.” Well put, Vivienne.

It’s hard for me to escape the idea that this is exactly what right wingers hate about public schools, one of the only places today where people of all races and all income levels mix freely.

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By: suswhit http://annarborchronicle.com/2013/08/09/column-the-case-for-free-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-261490 suswhit Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:05:48 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=118182#comment-261490 “I’d like to think that the taxes I pay to support a public school system are being used in a way that will help to maintain equity, not erode it.”
Well said, Vivian. I’ve been thinking a lot about the inequity among the various HS options in Ann Arbor. Some public school kids get an education in a smaller more personalized environment and at a higher cost simply as a reward for winning a “lottery.” Not because they did anything to need or earn it. Skyline kids get quite a few more credit hours because of their trimester system. And school board members are looking toward changes at Clemente, where students do have special circumstances, as a cost saving move? You’d think these were schools in neighboring towns instead of different sides of Ann Arbor. It’s sad that even in a town like ours, kids from different sides of town are getting such disparate opportunities.

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By: Vivienne Armentrout http://annarborchronicle.com/2013/08/09/column-the-case-for-free-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-261450 Vivienne Armentrout Wed, 14 Aug 2013 14:59:46 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=118182#comment-261450 Re (8): This column is not a legal argument. It is a policy prescription. (In case you’re wondering, I agree with Ruth that this is a bad policy.) (No, I have no idea how the AAPS can address their budget problems.)

What I see here is part of a trend toward increasing inequality in our society. The public schools have long been the great equalizer and mixer of diverse demographics in communities. One valuable lesson that students (or, as we used to call them, pupils) learned was that people who were different from them were also human beings who could even be befriended and respected.

The rush to charter schools has undercut this valuable social effect of public education. Now a fee-based system for enrichment activities in the public schools could do the same. Students who are able to afford these special classes will naturally form social networks apart from those who are unable to participate.

I started thinking about this after hearing a public radio discussion of the effect of high-priced private college student housing. There also, we are seeing a self-segregation based on family income. The commenter mentioned the likely life-long effect of sustained social networks including only similarly fortunate students.

The overall trend in our society toward increasing inequality based on income is insidious. It is likely to divide our society in ways beyond access to material goods. (We all noted the great empathy that Mitt Romney expressed toward the “47%”.) I’d like to think that the taxes I pay to support a public school system are being used in a way that will help to maintain equity, not erode it.

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