Comments on: Petersen Also Running for Mayor http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/01/15/petersen-also-running-for-mayor/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=petersen-also-running-for-mayor it's like being there Tue, 16 Sep 2014 04:56:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.2 By: John Floyd http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/01/15/petersen-also-running-for-mayor/comment-page-1/#comment-293731 John Floyd Tue, 28 Jan 2014 04:35:40 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=128392#comment-293731 While I can’t help but observe that Abraham Lincoln won the 1860 Republican nomination over a field of much more qualified candidates by being everyone’s second choice, Vivienne’s comments make sense to me. August simply is the wrong time to hold the general election, and an additional two months of public discussion is good for the community.

@18 Sabra’s Husband :-)

Nonpartisan elections aren’t a sly partisan workaround, they are an acknowledgment of partisan defeat. They are also an acknowledgment of the idea that with the demise of the party system in our community, it is time to move beyond party-based elections. It’s a bit like keeping the Rotten Burroughs of 19th century England. When the form no longer serves the substance, it may be time to reconsider the form.

Having become a one-party town, what civic purpose is served by holding the definitive local election in August, as a partisan primary? I have not yet heard an answer to this question that struck me as coherent.

My best to the Mrs., even though she, too, has not presented me with a coherent argument on this topic.

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By: Vivienne Armentrout http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/01/15/petersen-also-running-for-mayor/comment-page-1/#comment-293686 Vivienne Armentrout Mon, 27 Jan 2014 18:06:54 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=128392#comment-293686 Yes, I know Larry has been in favor of IRV for a long time, but as the county clerk he has also acknowledged that it isn’t compatible with our ballot system. The way our ballots are structured and scanned does not allow for choices. It would have to be an entirely separate process, with two types of ballots and readers, which would be very expensive and also confusing.

The New Yorker article explains at length how IRV can lead to “topsy- turvy” elections. “Whether a candidate who gets through the first round of counting will ultimately be elected may depend on which of his rivals he has to face in subsequent rounds, and some votes for a weaker challenger may do a candidate more good than a vote for that candidate himself. In short, a candidate may lose if certain voters back him, and would have won if they hadn’t. ” The article cites a mathematical study that estimates this could happen in one of every five IRV contests with three candidates.

Burlington, VT had IRV and eliminated it after a mayoral election went topsy-turvy. (The short way of explaining that is that everyone’s last choice got elected.) Of course, Ann Arbor also had IRV for one election. It was eliminated by petition after Al Wheeler won in a three-way race by being the second preference for many. I have reviewed the history and some more of these questions here. [link]

I should make it clear that I am not campaigning to change our electoral method. I’m just expressing some preferences.

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By: Libby Hunter http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/01/15/petersen-also-running-for-mayor/comment-page-1/#comment-293684 Libby Hunter Mon, 27 Jan 2014 17:45:06 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=128392#comment-293684 Vivienne, I attended a talk by Kestenbaum where he explained how IRV works, and he was definitely in favor of it.

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By: Steve Bean http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/01/15/petersen-also-running-for-mayor/comment-page-1/#comment-293660 Steve Bean Mon, 27 Jan 2014 14:40:25 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=128392#comment-293660 Vivienne, how is a runoff between the two major vote-getters better than IRV?

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By: Vivienne Armentrout http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/01/15/petersen-also-running-for-mayor/comment-page-1/#comment-293630 Vivienne Armentrout Mon, 27 Jan 2014 09:06:25 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=128392#comment-293630 The article in the New Yorker explains the problems.

Also, IRV doesn’t work with the rest of the electoral system as it is set up. This has been explained in the past by the county clerk, Larry Kestenbaum. The ballots and vote counting for other races are not compatible. Nonpartisan voting is – the contest simply moves to a different section of the ballot.

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By: Craig Harvey http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/01/15/petersen-also-running-for-mayor/comment-page-1/#comment-293574 Craig Harvey Mon, 27 Jan 2014 02:57:19 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=128392#comment-293574 I’m curious why Vivienne would say “…calls for instant runoff, but that is even worse…”
It seems to me that getting rid of a plurality system that has the obvious and likely failing that Vivienne mentions and replacing it with an alternative like IRV that is much more likely to yield a majority winner would be a step in the right direction. And Ann Arbor even has first-hand experience with both sides of that comparison. I’m not saying IRV is perfect, just better.

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By: Vivienne Armentrout http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/01/15/petersen-also-running-for-mayor/comment-page-1/#comment-293541 Vivienne Armentrout Sun, 26 Jan 2014 19:11:45 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=128392#comment-293541 My conversion to the non-partisan system is not tied to any wish for a particular partisan outcome (though I’ll continue to support Democrats in most cases) or to turnout (people have the option to vote if it matters to them) but rather to the process by which we sort out choices. In other words, I’d like to see the best method to enhance voter choice and an outcome that truly matches the wishes of the majority of voters. Game theory indicates that in three-way races (and presumably more candidates confuse things further), the outcome can be the least attractive candidate to the majority of voters. When we have a large field of candidates, as we do this year for mayor, there is a danger that many people may vote for one of two acceptable candidates, only to see a less acceptable candidate win because the vote to support a particular viewpoint has been split.

Of course, this immediately leads to calls for instant runoff, but that is even worse – see this long article from the New Yorker. [link]

What I find attractive about the non-partisan idea is not the number of people voting in each election, but the opportunity for a runoff between the two major vote-getters, and the extended discussion of issues that our present do-or-die August primary system does not allow in most cases, especially in even years.

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By: David Cahill http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/01/15/petersen-also-running-for-mayor/comment-page-1/#comment-293537 David Cahill Sun, 26 Jan 2014 18:28:58 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=128392#comment-293537 Gee. John, I realize that Republicans feel a bit frustrated. 8-)

But the fortunes of political war sometimes result in the losing side staying on the losing side. Trying to manipulate the electoral system is not going to help turn losers into winners.

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By: John Floyd http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/01/15/petersen-also-running-for-mayor/comment-page-1/#comment-293406 John Floyd Fri, 24 Jan 2014 21:53:07 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=128392#comment-293406 Vivienne’s point, that a one-party town with elections structured under the premise of two parties results in important decisions being decided in August, by a tiny minority of voters.

Dave, it’s possible that you have twinkle in your eye when you call your self “pro-choice” in this context, but the non-viability of ANY second party here in Ann Arbor, the central importance of an intra-party election removes choice from lots of people.

Its possible that someone’s views on foreign policy or military spending, or other national partisan issues is has a link to their position on “Potholes vs. ‘Art’”, snow removal, or openness in local government, but looking at our council, the connection is not obvious to me.

There is a reason than only three cities in Michigan still have partisan municipal elections.

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By: Dave Cahill http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/01/15/petersen-also-running-for-mayor/comment-page-1/#comment-293307 Dave Cahill Thu, 23 Jan 2014 18:31:41 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=128392#comment-293307 I agree with Jack. People always have the choice of running as nonpartisan candidates, and Jane Lumm has won twice running that way.

Why take away the choice to run as a partisan candidate? I’m pro-choice.

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