Comments on: Column: Mascot Madness http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/09/18/column-mascot-madness/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=column-mascot-madness it's like being there Tue, 16 Sep 2014 04:56:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.2 By: Bill Castanier http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/09/18/column-mascot-madness/comment-page-1/#comment-31256 Bill Castanier Wed, 30 Sep 2009 10:20:03 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=28463#comment-31256 John
Sherman Alexie will be in Grand Rapids next month. It might be worth the trip.Or stop by and talk with some of the profs at U-M’s Indian program. Or ask anyone whose parents or grandparents were kidnapped and sent to an Indian School what they think about appropriation. Or ask U-M’s distinguished professor Philip J. DeLoria who has written extensively about this issue. There is a lot to learn from this lesson you have provided us. “I am no mascot”.

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By: John U. Bacon http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/09/18/column-mascot-madness/comment-page-1/#comment-30930 John U. Bacon Mon, 21 Sep 2009 01:24:44 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=28463#comment-30930 Mr. Bennett,

I am, once again, in complete agreement with every word in your letter.

It boils down to such a simple point — ask the people in question how they feel, and no one else, then do as they wish — that it’s rather amazing it’s apparently so hard to follow.

I’m reminded of an episode of “The Simpsons,” in which Seymour Skinner says, “Mother, you’re embarrassing me!”

To which she replies, “No I’m not!” — and everyone gets the joke: it’s not for her to decide.

This issue obviously transcends something so silly as a Simpsons episode, but the point is the same: Only the people in question can tell you how they feel, and for anyone else to claim that right is presumptuous in the extreme.

I wish you luck in Texas, and elsewhere. And thank you for the kind words.

-John

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By: Bob Bennett http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/09/18/column-mascot-madness/comment-page-1/#comment-30926 Bob Bennett Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:47:47 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=28463#comment-30926 Mr. Bacon, I have never seen a writer respond in the manner you have to your piece and I appreciate it.

You as a journalism professor might appreciate viewing how the Amarillo Globe-News promotes a local Boy and Girls Scout Group here in Amarillo, TX who call themselves the Kwahadi Dancers, “The Ambassadors of American Indian Dance.” They are non-Indian kids who learn a purported styled of “authentic American Indian dance” and perform here at their “museum” and travel internationally as the ambassadors. The name Kwahadi comes from the Comanche who lived in the Texas Panhandle. I have expressed my outrage to the paper, yes, outrage, of the existence of this group and their promotion of them. They, in my opinion, bastardize everything they “…have made their own to honor American Indian dancing.”

The Globe’s latest promotion of this wannabe-fantasy occurred on 6/25/2009. They chose not to publish my letter to the editor but I think it would be interesting for you after this opinion piece. The Globe published one in 2006 which I wrote after seeing the Kwahadis. It could provide some interesting topics for discussion for you students. Just search on “Kwahadi” and you will see the links.

A Native friend of mine opined, “I don’t know what’s worse, this racist wannabe stuff or the overt ‘No Dogs or Indians Allowed’ racism.” These Kwahadis, in my opinion, exemplify the staunch stance taken by people outside a culture or right who, in spite of what one in the culture or who has a right would say, say we are going to continue because we mean no harm and respect Indian culture. It also makes them a lot of money and gets standing ovations from audiences who don’t know any different. As I told them and the Globe, it is not their right to promote something that is not theirs. To top it off, they just don’t look right hopping around the way they do.

Thanks for promoting the discussion.

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By: Mark http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/09/18/column-mascot-madness/comment-page-1/#comment-30915 Mark Sun, 20 Sep 2009 03:54:00 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=28463#comment-30915 My school was the home of the “Fighting Engineers”.

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By: Lou http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/09/18/column-mascot-madness/comment-page-1/#comment-30901 Lou Sat, 19 Sep 2009 05:56:31 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=28463#comment-30901 There was no movement at EMU to change the name, just some busybody, self-righteous administrators determined to force their ill-informed values on the university. That’s the way it usually works.

A few years back the NCAA tried to force all schools with Indian names to abandon them. The University of NC-Pembroke is a school that was established for Indians and run largely by Indians. Still heavily attended by Indians, the school told the NCAA where to go.

Go Braves!

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By: Ralph http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/09/18/column-mascot-madness/comment-page-1/#comment-30897 Ralph Sat, 19 Sep 2009 00:01:30 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=28463#comment-30897 Seems like a meaningless argument. The Huron name and logo have been gone for almost 20 years. I was on the Huron Logo Committee. There was no easy solution for this. With hind sight and knowing the dynamics of the committee the name and logo were doomed even though a slim majority of the members voted to keep them. While I don’t like the Eagle name or logo I’m still involved with Eastern as a donor and volunteer.

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By: John U. Bacon http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/09/18/column-mascot-madness/comment-page-1/#comment-30896 John U. Bacon Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:32:43 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=28463#comment-30896 Mr. Harjo,

I appreciate your graciousness, and your good point about the last line.

You gave me some good information about the founding of the team, a good lesson about proof-reading, and a good grin in the process. You are correct: my kicker “Go Hurons” tilts the piece. For what it’s worth, I intended it — with admittedly little thought — to mean not just the team but the tribe. But typing that out at the end clearly added nothing to the piece and detracted from the point I was making.

And to add to your wishes for “happy proofreading and copy-editing,” which is where I grinned, I should have written Wagner’s opera, not symphony.

So there are two points when you were only asking for one.

I hope you have a good weekend. We’ve all earned it!

-John

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By: Tom Harjo http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/09/18/column-mascot-madness/comment-page-1/#comment-30895 Tom Harjo Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:10:53 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=28463#comment-30895 Mr. Bacon,
I appreciate your response and clarification on your intent.

However, I do take exception to your column’s syntax.

You write, “I stated, in trying to end on a lighter note, that if given the choice between Emus or Eagles, I would not hesitate to choose the former.”But in your attempt at a humorous ending you chose to end with and hardy “Go Hurons”.

I failed to see the humor, as did your headline staff. I felt your end paragraph was more summation than “lighter note” given the “Go Hurons” addition. Add to this the headline and sub-headline and I feel your column takes on an entirely different character. Perhaps the piece it was better presented as a radio commentary?

In any case I accept your explanation and wish you “happy proofreading and copy-editing” in the future.

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By: mike ford http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/09/18/column-mascot-madness/comment-page-1/#comment-30893 mike ford Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:06:55 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=28463#comment-30893 Huron is a name bestown upon the people of the Tobacco
Confederacy of tribes by the French immigrants in the
16th century in Quebec and Ontario. Huron means
hillbilly and was seen as a slur towards the people
who were otherwise known as the Tionantate, Tobacco,
Petun, and Huron. After the Five Nations nearly exterminated
this confederacy of tribes for their French alliegiances
between 1649 and 1653, they became known as Wyandottes
or islanders due to the fact they hid on Great Lakes
islands to avoid the Mohawks and others chasing them.
The Wyandottes of Oklahoma are Petun and Tionantate
survivors of these attacks back then.

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By: Steve Bean http://annarborchronicle.com/2009/09/18/column-mascot-madness/comment-page-1/#comment-30892 Steve Bean Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:24:08 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=28463#comment-30892 “But it’s also true that when we eradicate all group names – no matter how respectful or accepted they may be, we lose something.”

With regard to this sentence of John’s, if Bob’s point is that “we” never had it to begin with, then I’d have to agree with him and therefore disagree that “we lose something”.

“If we are to get rid of the Hurons, should we also rename Lake Huron, Port Huron, the Huron River and Huron High School?”

Lakes, cities, rivers, and schools are categorically different than school mascots and sports teams. I think that your reasoning wavers here, John.

My (1/16th) Mohawk ancestry isn’t relevant–I just think the perspective Bob offered is worthy of consideration, even if he’s not a Huron.

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