Comments on: Transit Connector Study: Initial Analysis http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/14/transit-connector-study-initial-analysis/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=transit-connector-study-initial-analysis it's like being there Tue, 16 Sep 2014 04:56:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.2 By: Rod Johnson http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/14/transit-connector-study-initial-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-48556 Rod Johnson Tue, 29 Jun 2010 16:52:00 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=44932#comment-48556 I worked with UM Transportation Services about 15 years ago overseeing a student project to redesign the bus service for electric vehicles, which involved a possible rerouting, and there was one ironclad constraint: thou shalt not compete with AATA. Any route that involved picking up riders in an area that was considered AATA turf (the specific example was the students wanted North Campus routes to go to the Kroger on Plymouth) was infeasible. I think that has probably been weakened somewhat since–the concept of “campus” has been diluted as UM has spread out everywhere, but I imagine Cindy’s buses are still following this prime directive.

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By: Kenneth Kramden http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/14/transit-connector-study-initial-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-48551 Kenneth Kramden Tue, 29 Jun 2010 14:28:46 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=44932#comment-48551 I love this discussion and I hope it continues!
One item to consider, that appears to be somewhat elusive is that all of us are in a hurry. No matter what type of Mass Transit System that is created, the reality is driving is still faster and the most direct form of transportation. Cindy pointed out that she is thankful for the 2C Route that avoids the Med Center, thus a faster trip for her. Even a BRT system will have some issues associated with inconvenience (i.e Limited stops or not, length of route etc)

Significate issues exist with U-M turning over it’s bus system to AATA. One of which is cost,(U-M ‘s cost is about $56.00 per hour vs AATA’s cost at well over $100.00 per hour) and being able to move large numbers of people between the Campus’s without having to go Downtown. One other issue is U-M’s ability to change a bus route immediately, and not having to go through weeks or preparation and public hearings.

Many people feel that this is the magic fix for the area’s Mass Transit shortfalls. What if AATA’s operation were turned over to U-M, in theory the result would be the same. One consideration that has never been suggested is having both U-M and AATA work together and offer it’s services to everyone and create better coordination of services, (DDOT and SMART have a limited form of this concept in place; allowing both systems to service both systems bus stops) Again, Cindy brings a valid point when she mentions seeing several U-M buses pass her on Plymouth Rd, this would be a good example of coordination of services; having U-M stop to pick up passengers along Plymouth Rd that travel to the same area as the U-M buses. I maintain that by tweaking both systems and improved coordination we can have a Mass Transit System that is much more functional, serves more people and is tons more economical than what this survey will suggest.

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By: Fred Zimmerman http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/14/transit-connector-study-initial-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-48305 Fred Zimmerman Mon, 21 Jun 2010 16:14:05 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=44932#comment-48305 @29 Joel: I would slightly reframe your comment about the racial & class component preference for light rail: I think in Ann Arbor, at least, the more prevalent feeling is that it is “cooler”, i.e. more in fitting with class aspirations.

I have to admit there is also a comfort aspect. Light rail can deliver a smoother ride; although I have been on some bumpy trolleys, they *are* fun in a way that buses are not.

Still, the discussion here seems to be converging on a very simple theme: more buses.

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By: Joel Batterman http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/14/transit-connector-study-initial-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-48293 Joel Batterman Mon, 21 Jun 2010 05:15:58 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=44932#comment-48293 As Cindy suggests, bus rapid transit (BRT) is the option that makes the most sense for Ann Arbor, along both Plymouth-State and the Washtenaw corridor. Compare Eugene, Oregon’s EmX BRT line, which links that college town with a smaller neighboring city, and has been very successful at a fraction of the cost of light rail.

Don’t get me wrong. I just returned from Ann Arbor after four years as a student in light-rail & streetcar mecca Portland, Oregon, and I’m a fervent supporter of transit in Ann Arbor and greater Detroit. The status quo is intolerable. But at this time, bus rapid transit is a better choice for a city Ann Arbor’s size. For the cost of a single light rail line, we could dramatically improve transit service along several corridors using bus rapid transit.

Emphasis on light rail in Ann Arbor (as elsewhere) is likely motivated to a significant degree by the race & class associations that buses have in this country, and perhaps especially in southeast Michigan. However, while conventional US transit wisdom used to hold that rail is necessary to attract riders of means, AATA already serves a relatively affluent base of UM students, commuters, and others, and I think that prejudice against transit of all types is starting to fade more generally. Practically no other US city Ann Arbor’s size has its own light rail or streetcar system. Bus rapid transit would give us the most bang for our transit buck, and in our economically pressed and transit-starved region, that’s what this city needs. Done right, it’ll be a valuable aid to Ann Arbor, U-M, and Ypsilanti, and a model for the rest of southeast Michigan.

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By: Cindy Overmyer http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/14/transit-connector-study-initial-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-48276 Cindy Overmyer Sun, 20 Jun 2010 17:49:42 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=44932#comment-48276 Yes, exactly. I just returned from visiting a friend in Cleveland who lives on the Euclid Line, and we used it extensively – the busses are the size of two regular busses hinged together and hold a lot more people. The busses there also connect to Cleveland’s light rail system running east/west into the inner ring suburbs (exclusive Shaker Heights included) and is pretty impressive and easy to use. I’d love to know how the city financed it, considering Cleveland is as depressed financially as Detroit, and it was constructed pretty recently. Bet they have some sort of regional funding/network, which we here in SE Michigan have not been too successful with. This is the sort of transport network that was up and running in Freiburg nearly 20 years ago.

I’ve also ridden the Minneapolis Hiawatha Line quite a bit since my parents moved to the area – I have to take a bus 20 miles from their house to downtown MPLS just to get on it! It’s a lovely ride, going past most of the downtown MPLS destinations way out to the Mall of America and the MPLS/St. Paul International Airport, but really cost an arm and a leg to build. There are housing developments along the way, but that housing is pretty far from anyplace else (shopping/schools/living-wise). Minneapolis is doing the same sort of sprawling that the Detroit area did 30 years ago-the traffic there is so bad people time when/where they go (not just to work but even to the grocery store or a movie theatre!)just like folks I know in L.A.) but they are concentrating for the moment on bus rapid transit between suburbs and between suburbs and downtown. The Hiawatha Line was exceptional because of the link to the airport and the Mall.

Have any of the transport studies ever looked at the BATA bus network in Traverse City? They have a great system of fixed route busses in the city limits, connecting to an extensive Dial-A Ride system that covers all of Grand Traverse and Leelanau (and soon Benzie) counties. $2 and a csll a few hours ahead can get you from downtown Traverse out to Northport, Leland, the Sleeping Bear Dunes or Empire, with your bike and groceries to boot. BATA runs round trips in a loop between all the resort towns along Lake Michigan 5-6 times daily from May to October, and some of the drivers I’ve spoken with routinely log 150-200 miles per day on their routes. BATA’s main goal was to ease traffic congestion on the two-lane roads out there, serve people who were working in Traverse but moving 20-30 miles away to the smaller towns to live and commuting in, and also connect the tourist areas for an alternative to car use along the Lakeshore, and it’s working very well for both tourists and residents. It reminds me of the old A2 Dial-A-Ride system, except that it actually works! They too are relying on busses and road transport, though there are lots of old railroad tracks in the area and their roads are a lot worse in the winter than ours! Traverse City isn’t a bad analogy to A2 actually, because they too are inundated every year with a non-resident influx of tourists and Snowbirds, who either don’t live in the area or only live there part-time. It would be interesting to see what the BATA planners would suggest for A2, coming from a more county-wide and regional perspective.

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By: Vivienne Armentrout http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/14/transit-connector-study-initial-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-48269 Vivienne Armentrout Sun, 20 Jun 2010 16:06:20 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=44932#comment-48269 I think the “articulated busses” may be referring to the BRT-type system recently employed by Cleveland [link].

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By: Cindy Overmyer http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/14/transit-connector-study-initial-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-48268 Cindy Overmyer Sun, 20 Jun 2010 16:01:22 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=44932#comment-48268 As a long-time resident of the Plymouth Road corridor, I’ve been part of this boomerang for a long time, and often watched with frustration at least 5 various U-M busses/shuttles zip on by on Plymouth Road while waiting for an AATA bus to go in the same direction. Can’t the AATA integrate its system w/UM’s on the same roads as Lansing/East Lansing does with Michigan State’s campus? City-wide transport from MSU is a snap!

Having the U-M bus passes and more busses on the #2 route has been a big improvement, but not so much if half the routes cut out during the U-M summer term. When I was in college, I studied for a couple of years in Freiburg, Germany, a university town just a tad bigger than Ann Arbor, with a large student population; the same sprawl-not much industry tax base-large population-issues were in place there. The solutions: Large articulated busses running every 7 minutes during the day (every 10 min. in the evenings until 1 AM) and designated no-stop bus lanes on major corridors for everyone – students or not. No light rail, even though the town had numerous major passenger/freight lines running through it. No separate busses serving the University which, like U-M, was right downtown, with most student housing developments 2-4 miles away. It worked great – except if your train got in after midnight on the weekend or you were out partying too late in town to catch the last bus home:-) Differences in tax structure and committment to mass transit aside, can’t we do something like that?

As for U-M “having to pay for it”, why not? I live in the area near Wall Street and don’t want to live in a neighborhood full of parking structures! Since the U initiated the free U-M ID bus passes, my #2 bus has been jammed with passengers, many of whom had never taken a bus anywhere before and were surprised (and even delighted!) to see how easy and quick it was to get downtown or to the Hospital or Main Campus without having to worry about traffic or where to park. I’ve been delighted to finally have a #2 bus that goes directly downtown, without having to make the tedious loop around the hospital and campus areas, probably because of the success of the other routes. It’s taken many years (and U-M’s more direct involvment) to get the AATA system to the point where it’s just as convenient (and sometimes more so) as driving to get around – a point which even the much maligned Detroit and SMART systems reached years ago (and still aren’t too bad at!) How much more money could U-M save (and contribute to AATA) if it didn’t have to operate its own bus system on top of everything else?

Articulated busses, designated traffic lanes, a schedule running every 10 minutes all day until at least midnight (every 15 on weekends INCLUDING Sunday – bus users need to go shopping/run errands/work odd shifts on the weekends too, don’t forget!) Spend the $$ on that and the residents (both old and new) will use it and thank you for it. Remember, there’s a big active population coming down the pike who want to have access to stores/events/friends and may not be able to drive anymore! Get something like this up and running well and you probably won’t even need light rail (at least in local traffic) at all.

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By: Rod Johnson http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/14/transit-connector-study-initial-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-48029 Rod Johnson Thu, 17 Jun 2010 18:02:07 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=44932#comment-48029 Although I’m sure she’d work for much less., just for the pure satisfaction of doing good. :)

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By: ROB http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/14/transit-connector-study-initial-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-48017 ROB Thu, 17 Jun 2010 06:58:34 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=44932#comment-48017 @rod… and Ora Pescovitz is one of the VERY highest paid people at the U, aside from Mary Sue, and Rich Rod. She is just another hired gun for Big U Inc.

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By: Rod Johnson http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/06/14/transit-connector-study-initial-analysis/comment-page-1/#comment-48014 Rod Johnson Thu, 17 Jun 2010 04:18:17 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=44932#comment-48014 I assume Ora Pescovitz moved here in large part because she was offered an attractive salary to… not just out of some sense of mission.

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