Comments on: Column: Soccer Can’t Compete http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/07/02/column-soccer-cant-compete/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=column-soccer-cant-compete it's like being there Tue, 16 Sep 2014 04:56:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.2 By: John U. Bacon http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/07/02/column-soccer-cant-compete/comment-page-1/#comment-49358 John U. Bacon Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:52:24 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45859#comment-49358 Thank you, Mr. O’Connell, for a great discussion.

And, especially, for doing what too few soccer fans do: Separate constructive criticism of the game from ignorant caterwauling. When we debate the three-point line in basketball, instant replay in baseball, overtime in football and interference in hockey, it’s not because we don’t understand or care about those sports, but just the opposite: we love them, and want to protect them from becoming imbalanced.

I wish more soccer fans were like you, and understood this!

Again, thank you!

-John

]]>
By: D.P. O'Connell http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/07/02/column-soccer-cant-compete/comment-page-1/#comment-49328 D.P. O'Connell Mon, 12 Jul 2010 00:57:39 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45859#comment-49328 Thanks, John, for your reply and it’s a good debate to have. I think you have a point about FIFA (which seems sometimes to be slower to embrace change than Vatican City): they do need to have more of a balance between offense and defense.

Today’s game (which was an ugly match, skill- and style-wise) is a case in point. It too could easily have come down to penalty kicks. I’m biased as a fan of Germany, but I thought yesterday’s match with Uruguay was much more of a fluid and skilled game.

But it’s a tough thing to fine-tune without spoiling the game. We’ll see what comes in the years ahead. Thanks again for your detailed reply.

]]>
By: John U. Bacon http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/07/02/column-soccer-cant-compete/comment-page-1/#comment-48893 John U. Bacon Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:35:00 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45859#comment-48893 Couldn’t agree more.

A must read: John Feinstein’s “A Civil War,” about the Army-Navy game. Not his most famous work, but arguably his best.

-John U. Bacon

]]>
By: abc http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/07/02/column-soccer-cant-compete/comment-page-1/#comment-48882 abc Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:14:40 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45859#comment-48882 One of the best time-honored gestures of sportsmanship… occurs at the end of the Army-Navy football game.

]]>
By: John U. Bacon http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/07/02/column-soccer-cant-compete/comment-page-1/#comment-48857 John U. Bacon Thu, 08 Jul 2010 06:53:16 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45859#comment-48857 For Mr. Lannan:

You clearly know your stuff, and raised a lot of good points— but as usual, I can’t say I agree with all of them. (If I did, I’d be a complete hypocrite in my opening column!)

I agree that football, especially, has become too violent and dangerous. The players are bigger, faster and stronger, but our bones and ligaments and skulls are no better, and therein lies the problem. I don’t think we’re too far from making dramatic changes in the game. I, too, am starting to feel guilty for my love of the game. The long-term future is not bright – for the sport or the health of those who play it.

I also agree that the U.S. soccer team features some of the toughest players in the sport. But – sorry, Marco – the sport is still soccer. And while you’re right that “celebrated” is too strong a term for the reaction to fake injuries, they are tolerated far more than they would be in football or hockey. And the stretcher business is just embarrassing for all involved.

-You also make a good point about basketball players taking charges, and the like. But there is a crucial difference: basketball defenders or football punters might feign getting knocked over, but not being injured. That’s the aspect I find such a turn-off. When you see a stretcher come out in football, the player actually needs it.

That said, another reader on my site pointed out that soccer does feature one of the best time-honored gestures of sportsmanship, which occurs when a player kicks the ball out of bounds to give time for an injured opponent, followed by the latter’s team giving the ball back on the throw-in. It is analogous to the Tour de France leader holding up the pack when a competitor falls, allowing him to catch up. And really, those are just about the two best examples of sportsmanship customs in any sport, anywhere.

(And as for Ms. Moorhead’s question, yes, I love the Tour de France – the most demanding competition in sports, in my view, with great guts on display, and surprisingly vital teamwork – but the drugs are threatening to eclipse the good of the sport as much as they are of baseball. But more on that another day!)

All in all, I very much enjoyed these letters, and the fine debate that ensued. Thanks to you thoughtful folks, I pondered a lot of points I would not have otherwise, and have been moved to modify my positions on a number of fronts.

All THAT said, I’ll leave you with this final thought: Get the hell up! No one touched you!

(There, I said it!)

Thanks for reading, and thanks for writing.

-John

p.s. To the good Mr. Johnson: I am surely no journalistic giant, any way you measure it (I stand 5-8, for starters) but then I didn’t think I had had an off-day, either! So, what do I know.

]]>
By: John U. Bacon http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/07/02/column-soccer-cant-compete/comment-page-1/#comment-48854 John U. Bacon Thu, 08 Jul 2010 06:32:16 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45859#comment-48854 Okay! I don’t often respond to readers’ comments, based on a philosophy that goes back to the rules of writers’ workshops. In most, the writer is not allowed to respond to comments and questions, for the simple reason that that the piece should speak for itself. But there are times, of course, I can’t resist. This was one of those times – though if I knew Mr. Johnson didn’t watch a second of World Cup soccer, I’d be less surprised he would not be interested in columns about the World Cup, and I would have refrained.

But have dived in, might as well keep swimming. As they say, if you’re going to eat the horse, you might as well eat the tail.

Besides, the letters that followed were quite thoughtful, and warrant a thoughtful reply.

From the top – or middle, I guess.

For D.P. O’Connell: You are correct. I wimped out of naming the greatest sport. In the studio, I said, at the end, “Hockey is.” But that was just for a laugh. I love hockey, and think it’s the greatest sport – but the worst league. So, I wimped out of actually naming one.

Taking the rest of your points:
-Strategy: I agree, it can be very interesting, and I LIKE the fact that the game goes back and forth – a la basketball and hockey – but it doesn’t go back and forth nearly enough for my tastes. Too much time in the middle, doing nothing – or what we call in journalism, “Clearing your throat.”

As for the Simpsons – it should come as no surprise I almost quoted the show in this piece, as follows, “It’s all here – fast-kicking, low scoring, and ties? You bet!” Can’t beat that show.

-Offsides: Actually, the fact that the offsides line moves in soccer makes it a lot more imaginary to me than the static, play-by-play line in football – and much harder to call correctly. You are dead on, of course, that claiming refs blow the call “half the time” is hyperbolic – but hey, it’s a column. Still, I should have not cut “seems like” from the piece.

-I agree with your point about not bowing to the relentless “legalism” of other sports – this is why I don’t want instant replay in baseball or soccer, except for home runs and goals – but if you ARE keeping the time, why not tell us what it is? Why not tell the players and coaches, who need to know to affect the best possible strategy?

-Ties: I can live with a good tie game, but not one with only a handful of shots on net. If passing is a great thing to behold, so is shooting. goaltending, and rebounding – and all the things we can’t enjoy when they never shoot.

-Shoot-outs: Yes, I took in the classic shoot-out between Germany and Argentina in2006, and it was great. As was Ghana and Uruguay. But unlike – yes! – the hockey shootouts, where there are endless possibilities and a fair chance for both players, the soccer shoot-out is just too simple for my tastes.
But this raises the two biggest issues I have with soccer: Great game, yes, but unlike our favorite sports, where they are constantly fine-tuning the delicate balance between offense and defense, FIFA lets defense dominate, and will never consider the slightest change in its game.

And the second major beef is: whenever you point this out to soccer fans, they conclude you must be a Baconator-eating, knuckle-dragging moron who can never appreciate the World’s Game.

However – and this is important – your letter was unfailingly intelligent, fair-minded and good-humored throughout, and you raised many good points. This is the kind of debate happy hours were made for.

Thanks for your thought-provoking letter.

-John

]]>
By: Karen Moorhead http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/07/02/column-soccer-cant-compete/comment-page-1/#comment-48830 Karen Moorhead Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:32:36 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45859#comment-48830 I would love to read your description of Tour De France (TdF by those who love it and follow on twitter). It seems to be the opposite of soccer and the riders keep on going with bloody knees and elbows until finally a bone is broken and they are pulled from the tour. It is long and brutal and simply amazing that people can do it once, much less many times.

Pro cycling is very popular in Europe and I hope Americans interest continues to grow.

John, your commentary on this sport would be very interesting and the cyclist athletes show the epitome of tenacity, in my opinion. Would love to hear yours.

]]>
By: Marco Lannan http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/07/02/column-soccer-cant-compete/comment-page-1/#comment-48780 Marco Lannan Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:00:04 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45859#comment-48780 Part of why I like soccer is precisely because it’s not as brutal as football. The more I watch “American” football, and the more I learn about concussions and other lifelong injuries it causes, the more I feel like I’m party to something grotesque.

But soccer is rough. You complainers imply it’s a game for milquetoasts, but you couldn’t possibly want a tougher representative of your country than Clint Dempsey, who got battered every time he touched the ball–and never dived, but kept bouncing back for more. He’s like Bruce Willis in Die Hard, but real. Or how about US defender Jay DeMerit, who says, “If I’m not bleeding after a game, I’m not doing my job.”

Diving is a stupid and annoying part of soccer, but it’s not “celebrated”…players often (but not often enough, by a long shot) get carded for it. Announcers complain about it. Players like Cristiano Ronaldo and Arjen Robben are almost universally reviled for their diving, and even their fans are embarrassed by the dives.

But finally, if you think working the ref to get a call is un-American, you’ve never played basketball. Falling down on screens? Crying out and falling over on layups? Flopping to draw a charging call? All part of the game. I know players who are experts at hitting their own thighs on contested layups, so that it sounds like they’re getting hit.

Soccer’s like any sport, or even most kinds of music. It takes some work and time to discover and appreciate the nuances, so that jazz, for instance, doesn’t just sound like noise. Or so you can appreciate, rather than be bored by, the drama of a batter fouling off pitch after pitch, slowly breaking a pitcher down so that four innings from now the team can make a breakthrough. Anyway, different strokes for different folks, and I get why people might not like soccer. But for me, it’s better than John U.’s favorite sport of hockey. At least soccer doesn’t depend on fighting.

]]>
By: Andrew Carvin http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/07/02/column-soccer-cant-compete/comment-page-1/#comment-48778 Andrew Carvin Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:30:13 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45859#comment-48778 I have a lot of respect for the athleticism of Soccer. But PRO soccer can be summed up nicely with Mr. Bacon’s quote: “Every sport in the world celebrates toughness – mental or physical – except this one, which celebrates athletes acting like wimps.”

This is precisely why Soccer is uninteresting to most Americans. Americans celebrate hard work and project that onto all facets of their lives, sports included. If a pro baseball, football, or MMA athlete acted like a pro soccer player, his career would be severely tarnished.

People that personally attack Mr. Bacon for writing this pp-ed are hilarious. He is entitled to his opinion, and he’s getting paid for it. Last I checked, anonymous posters are not. I guess sports imitates life–soccer fans also have delusions of personal injury–they are so easily offended by a pretty tame editorial!

]]>
By: Rod Johnson http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/07/02/column-soccer-cant-compete/comment-page-1/#comment-48752 Rod Johnson Mon, 05 Jul 2010 16:29:20 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=45859#comment-48752 Deal. Even journalistic giants have an off day. :)

]]>