Comments on: Public Turns Out to Support Huron Hills Golf http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/08/19/public-turns-out-to-support-huron-hills-golf/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=public-turns-out-to-support-huron-hills-golf it's like being there Tue, 16 Sep 2014 04:56:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.2 By: JK http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/08/19/public-turns-out-to-support-huron-hills-golf/comment-page-1/#comment-51493 JK Wed, 25 Aug 2010 13:33:24 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=48760#comment-51493 At least looking into CM Rapundalo’s suggestion with regard to cost savings that could be achieved through purvate partnerships to the public golf course. That has potential for creating sorely needed revenue and keeping the course public.

The underlying issue from the City Administration’s perspective, is not necessarily how sustainable the golf course is, but that the City is looking to improve the fiscal performance of known to be successful forms of generating revenue for the Parks. They want to ensure this without loosing the true intention of the park, and fuel the recovery from the economic downturn.

One piece which should be carefully examined, is that if any non- conforming uses are considered, that public process and strict oversight measures be put in place. I did not like reading the associated retail space and envisioning a strip of golf stores a long the road. That would be unacceptable to create a mini golf strip mall.

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By: DrData http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/08/19/public-turns-out-to-support-huron-hills-golf/comment-page-1/#comment-51473 DrData Wed, 25 Aug 2010 00:14:04 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=48760#comment-51473 Marvin,

You are correct. I think I am responding to Bancel’s comments in the coverage. I think the group he represents is worried about a driving range on the front nine. In re-reading the RFP, I believe my suggestion of a ferris wheel or dirt bike track would not pass muster.

The time allowed for this RFP is amazingly short; even shorter for the city to review and award a contract to. It seems out of character for the city to be able to act so quickly. Let’s sit and watch. It won’t be long for something (or nothing) to happen.

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By: Marvin Face http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/08/19/public-turns-out-to-support-huron-hills-golf/comment-page-1/#comment-51467 Marvin Face Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:54:50 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=48760#comment-51467 Dr Data, the RFP mentions driving range only once and it is used as an example of what is expected of the respondent. Here is the exact text of the only mention of driving range:

“In addition to the general conditions stated in Appendix B, the City will require as a term of any agreement the retention of its right to periodic performance and quality reviews with the right of early termination at specified junctures based on performance issues and/or default; elements of control and supervision(including but not limited to full access to books and records, controls as to hours of operation, product and service lines, pricing of products and services, advertising and branding; the ability to maintain an on-site Parks office; and a minimum percentage of gross income from various components of golf course operations (e.g. green fees, cart rentals, driving range ball rentals, golf shop merchandise sales, food and beverage sales) with a minimum required payment, such that the balance of gross income less expenses would constitute the selected Respondent’s compensation.”

They are not asking for a driving range. Frankly, I am very curious to see what they get back from respondents…if they get anything at all.

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By: DrData http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/08/19/public-turns-out-to-support-huron-hills-golf/comment-page-1/#comment-51448 DrData Tue, 24 Aug 2010 02:24:22 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=48760#comment-51448 Steve,

Not sure how much sense any golf operations make for the city of Ann Arbor. But, here is something that illustrates how odd the Huron Hills RFP is.

Almost every driving range I’ve ever seen is sort of on the edge of a city – cheap property that will be used for something more expensive later. Ann Arbor is taking land that probably would sell for $150,000 an acre and turning it into a driving range. You would have to look hard to find another city that will turn an 18 hole golf course into a 9 hole golf course and add a driving range onto prime property.

Driving ranges are sort of ugly – lots of netting to prevent the stray balls from going on to streets. Lots of lights to accommodate after work golfers, etc. How likely would it be for a private driving range to get approved for some property on N. Huron River Drive that is yet to be developed or in the property along Washtenaw and Platt. Not likely. But, since this is city owned property we could put in a ferris wheel and a dirt bike racing track because someone projected it would bring in more money than the current golf operations.

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By: Steve Bean http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/08/19/public-turns-out-to-support-huron-hills-golf/comment-page-1/#comment-51401 Steve Bean Mon, 23 Aug 2010 02:16:03 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=48760#comment-51401 From the Feb. 8 council working session: “Miller noted that Leslie represented a fairly decent chance of becoming self-sustaining and that allowing a private enterprise to take it over would essentially take money out of the city’s pocket.”

I’d appreciate anyone explaining how a public/private partnership at Leslie would take money from the city while a partnership at Huron Hills would not.

Re: “A commitment to growing the game of golf.”

How is that principal of benefit to Ann Arbor citizens? If golf is not growing as a sport without our help, it seems doubtful that our efforts would turn it around. On the other hand, if it is growing, it doesn’t need our help. Are we currently making expenditures in such an effort?

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By: Harvey Kaplan http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/08/19/public-turns-out-to-support-huron-hills-golf/comment-page-1/#comment-51236 Harvey Kaplan Fri, 20 Aug 2010 12:22:57 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=48760#comment-51236 Mary,
This was an excellent, comprehensive report that captured the essence of the proceedings of the PAC meeting. To totally capture the passion of our citizens, I would strongly recommend that those who were unable to attend the meeting watch a replay of the meeting that will be aired on CTN Channel 16 tomorrow (August 21) at 9:00 am and at other times as well.

Harvey Kaplan

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By: DrData http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/08/19/public-turns-out-to-support-huron-hills-golf/comment-page-1/#comment-51214 DrData Fri, 20 Aug 2010 03:54:14 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=48760#comment-51214 I do not understand the finances behind this RFP. Will the partner still be assessed this large administrative fee? I cannot see how turning the front 9 into a driving range could be profitable under these circumstances. It will cost a lot to bulldoze the property, build a larger parking lot and add screening and lights. Other likely expenses are enlarging the small business office.

So after all these expenses, how can this partnership make enough money to cover these expenses and the city administrative charge?

And, if/when it is a failure, we end up with the debris on top of the former front 9.

Go take a look at the former batting cages at Vet’s Park. I believe that was a concession to make money years ago. It is now a concrete slab enclosed by a fence. It is pretty small but the city hasn’t seen the need to spend the money to tear it down. Tearing down a failed driving range usually is for something profitable like a housing development. That’s what happened to the Liberty driving range.

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By: ann Schriber http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/08/19/public-turns-out-to-support-huron-hills-golf/comment-page-1/#comment-51211 ann Schriber Fri, 20 Aug 2010 02:47:29 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=48760#comment-51211 Dear Mary,
A very comprehensive job -well done! We’re in the battle again, only this time it’s not a sale of HH property, but a long term lease, but long term leases last a long time!
Thanks for your reporting.
Ann

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By: glenn thompson http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/08/19/public-turns-out-to-support-huron-hills-golf/comment-page-1/#comment-51186 glenn thompson Thu, 19 Aug 2010 21:52:17 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=48760#comment-51186 Tim Berla is reported to have said “Regarding commercial uses, what about the farmers market? he asked. It’s really important and a great part of the community, but it’s a public/private partnership.”

If the reporting is accurate, Mr. Berla is either misinformed or is being deliberately misleading. The Farmers Market is a park operated by the Parks Department, with city personnel. There are many vendors, not a single corporate partner with the city. These vendors may buy an annual permit, much as the city currently sells season passes to the golf courses, or the vendors may buy daily permits, like daily greens fees at the golf courses. The operation of the Market is much more similar to the current operation of the golf courses than the proposed lease. As such, it is incorrect to use it as an example of an acceptable lease of the park land.

If Mr Berla believes the Market is a good example, he should support this type of direct city use and reject the leasing our our parkland.

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By: Jack Eaton http://annarborchronicle.com/2010/08/19/public-turns-out-to-support-huron-hills-golf/comment-page-1/#comment-51185 Jack Eaton Thu, 19 Aug 2010 21:30:30 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=48760#comment-51185 Mary, Thank you for your comprehensive report. You mention that I was in attendance, but I did not arrive until late into the meeting. Having this article available is the next best thing to being there.

The city golf courses do not run big deficits. In fact, the revenue from the courses pretty much cover the cost of running the courses. The financial problems arise from charging the golf courses the administrative fees assessed all city operations. Even if we closed both golf courses, those administrative cost would need to be covered, likely by assessing larger fees on other city operations.

The golf budget deficits are a fiction based on administrative fees unrelated to the actual cost of operating the golf courses. It would be sad to see that fiction used as a basis for destroying Huron Hills.

I know it sounds cynical or conspiratorial to suggest that the RFP process is being used to develop parkland. Please note that a developer has proposed replacing nine holes of golf with a driving range and “associated” retail operations. Recall, if you will, that the idea of a hotel/conference center for the library lot came from a developer, too. That suggestion was followed by an RFP process just to see what ideas might be out there. Not surprisingly, the ideas that survived that process were for hotels and a conference center. Watching the same folks go through the same kind of RFP process and believing that the results will be similar is not illogical or conspiratorial.

For more information, visit: [link]

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