Comments on: AATA OKs Ann Arbor-Ypsi Route Increases http://annarborchronicle.com/2011/11/20/aata-oks-ann-arbor-ypsi-route-increases/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=aata-oks-ann-arbor-ypsi-route-increases it's like being there Tue, 16 Sep 2014 04:56:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.2 By: Dave Askins http://annarborchronicle.com/2011/11/20/aata-oks-ann-arbor-ypsi-route-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-79900 Dave Askins Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:27:39 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=76214#comment-79900 The Chronicle has a fairly straightforward commenting policy: Be Generous. It’s mostly self-regulating and it’s rare that the automatic filter is triggered that sends a comment to the moderation queue (for some reason other than the fact that a hyperlink has been included).

However, for this thread, there are a number of comments that have been sent automatically to moderation. There are also some comments that appeared (unmoderated) in this thread that might arguably fall short of the “Be Generous” standard. In my experience, simply letting a moderated comment sit there in the queue eventually leads the commenter to reflect on what they’ve written, understand that maybe, just maybe, the comment was ill-considered, or that the world did not absolutely need to see that piece of text anyway, or that keeping score on such matters is not worth the trouble. And that’s the end of it. Sometimes, a commenter will even send an email and ask that it not be moved out of the queue and into public view.

But this thread and this topic have resulted in righteous indignation and protest on the part of moderated commenters (conveyed in additional comments, also sent automatically to moderation) and the demand that they be allowed to say what they have to say. In those unseen comments, people who have essentially opposite perspectives on this issue have attacked the host of this forum, The Chronicle, for not allowing everything they have to say appear in the forum.

I don’t think the problem is with the administration of the forum or with programming of the filter. The problem is that there’s folks with perspectives on both sides of the issue who would, as my mother used to say, “argue with a fence post,” and who will not rest until they are satisfied that their perspective has the imprimatur of the forum. I get it. I identify with it, even. (Who do you think my mother was talking about?)

But it’s the kind of thinking that leads people to insist it’s only fair that they have the opportunity to respond, or that other person was allowed two comments (in a row!) and this different person only got one, or this person was allowed to write 102 words and the other person got 195 words. And so The Chronicle needs to allow this moderated comment to appear or else take down some other comment that has already appeared.

I find the calculus of “forum fairness” to be unproductive and a waste of everyone’s time. I don’t have any patience for it.

For those commenters who have opposite perspectives on this issue and would like a forum to air your perspectives, get together and create one.

With apologies to those whose comments are currently in the automatic moderation queue for various innocuous reasons, this thread is closed.

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By: Henry Herskovitz http://annarborchronicle.com/2011/11/20/aata-oks-ann-arbor-ypsi-route-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-79898 Henry Herskovitz Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:20:15 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=76214#comment-79898 Re #26: Apologies, Vivienne, for the misspelling of your name and the misquoted word. However, my point was to take issue with (a) your pronouncement that the image *is* offensive, when in fact that is merely your opinion, to which you are entitled, and (b) to show readers that “one’s position on the underlying issue” does have relationship to one’s opinion. btw, and at the risk of being incorrect (again), I don’t recall reading your support for the “removal of all advertising from AATA buses”, prior to Mr. Coleman’s advertizing request.

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By: steve http://annarborchronicle.com/2011/11/20/aata-oks-ann-arbor-ypsi-route-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-79891 steve Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:48:28 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=76214#comment-79891 erratum to my previous: I didn’t meant to suggest that the ad’s proposer was actually ‘erudite’ on his chosen subject of concern.

“monomaniacal–although ill informed” would be much more accurate.

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By: steve http://annarborchronicle.com/2011/11/20/aata-oks-ann-arbor-ypsi-route-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-79890 steve Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:45:00 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=76214#comment-79890 re the ad’s origin: While the detective work that links the design to Juan Posada is persuasive, I sort of doubt the proposer of the ad is that erudite on subjects other than the sole one for which he is notorious locally.

This may be a case of independent invention and could plausibly derive from either the CAT scan of the proposers brain or his having somehow seen the tatooed back of Sandra Bullock’s ex-husband ( or his pornstar girlfriend).

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By: Vivienne Armentrout http://annarborchronicle.com/2011/11/20/aata-oks-ann-arbor-ypsi-route-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-79887 Vivienne Armentrout Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:20:35 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=76214#comment-79887 re #23: If you are referring to me when you quote “Vivian” (not my name), I did not say it was “tasteless”. I said “It is indeed offensive, regardless of one’s position on the underlying issue.”

Again, I support the removal of all advertising from AATA buses. It is a drag on the image of the service.

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By: steve http://annarborchronicle.com/2011/11/20/aata-oks-ann-arbor-ypsi-route-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-79880 steve Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:33:03 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=76214#comment-79880 The provenance of the ad as originally Mexican political art notwitstanding, in the present context it’s like saying the swastika is a neutral symbol of cosmic oneness of sanskrit origin so displayinfg it is just fine .

This is especially so given the notorious history of its submitter and its defender here ( who finds it ‘eye catching’).

By the way, there are articulate folks on anti-ad side who’d enjoy a see saw ride.

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By: Steve Bean http://annarborchronicle.com/2011/11/20/aata-oks-ann-arbor-ypsi-route-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-79858 Steve Bean Wed, 23 Nov 2011 05:42:00 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=76214#comment-79858 The ‘offended’ reactions are ironic in light of Mike’s info that the piece was created by a somewhat well-known (to Mike at least) and appreciated (by UNM at least) artist.

The context of the original piece would be interesting. Anyone care to translate the Spanish text from “Panteon de Menudencias” that surrounds the image? The “Description” on the UNM page reads: “Pictorial broadside with an image of a spider with a calavera face that resembles [Mexican president] Victoriano ['The Jackal'] Huerta.” Sounds political.

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By: Henry Herskovitz http://annarborchronicle.com/2011/11/20/aata-oks-ann-arbor-ypsi-route-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-79852 Henry Herskovitz Wed, 23 Nov 2011 02:56:01 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=76214#comment-79852 Isn’t this the essence of free speech, that some see a half-full glass and others see it half-empty? Vivian thinks Coleman’s ad is “tasteless”, Rod thinks it’s “nasty” and Mike chimes in with “poor taste”. But aren’t we forgetting the victims of Israel’s brutality, and many others who may think the ad is “accurate”? What would my friend Basem Abu Rahme have had to say about the ad, had he not been murdered by the Israeli military in 2009? What about the small Palestinian children I met who would flee in terror when they saw Uzi-wielding settlers approaching their farm? Maybe US citizens ought to reflect that their personal opinions aren’t shared by all, indeed not by many if world opinion is taken into consideration. My own opinion of the ad is “eye-catching”.

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By: Murph http://annarborchronicle.com/2011/11/20/aata-oks-ann-arbor-ypsi-route-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-79849 Murph Wed, 23 Nov 2011 02:15:39 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=76214#comment-79849 @Mike – My guess is that the UNM holds copyright to /that particular digital version/ of the image, and not to the image itself. (And I’d like to see them prove that Blaine used their particular digital version of the work to make his ad.)

Copyright’s complicated, and I make no claim to be an expert, but it looks like the work in question was created in 1919, and is thus probably out of copyright by this point–I understand 1923ish to be the horizon for copyright claims in the US. (Beside which, if Posada died in 1913, his image was probably created earlier than 1919–I’m guessing UNM is considering the entire page as the “original work” that they’re citing a Nov 2, 1919 date for, as opposed to the Posada image itself.)

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By: Mike http://annarborchronicle.com/2011/11/20/aata-oks-ann-arbor-ypsi-route-increases/comment-page-1/#comment-79843 Mike Wed, 23 Nov 2011 00:02:18 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=76214#comment-79843 The digital version is under copyright held by U of New Mexico with explicit limitations on it use. Copyright can be renewed at any time so it’s possible that the heirs of Posada or someone else like UNM still hold the rights. Besides the poor taste of the whole idea, use of this image may very well lead to litigation, and if the copyright is still valid, certainly it could cost someone–I hope not we taxpayers in Washtenaw County–big bucks in losing such a lawsuit, a very likely outcome.

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