Comments on: Ann Arbor Restarts Talk on Vehicle Idling http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/01/19/ann-arbor-restarts-talk-on-vehicle-idling/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ann-arbor-restarts-talk-on-vehicle-idling it's like being there Tue, 16 Sep 2014 04:56:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.2 By: Vivienne Armentrout http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/01/19/ann-arbor-restarts-talk-on-vehicle-idling/comment-page-1/#comment-87046 Vivienne Armentrout Wed, 25 Jan 2012 17:37:45 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=79546#comment-87046 I had missed the NewsHawks’ coverage of this important issue from late fall 2011 – here it is. [link]

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By: Barbara Carr http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/01/19/ann-arbor-restarts-talk-on-vehicle-idling/comment-page-1/#comment-87018 Barbara Carr Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:56:59 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=79546#comment-87018 At last we are at least discussing this public health issue! I believe we do need legislation and signage to establish the importance reducing exhaust emissions. Many people know about the problem (they are already “educated”), but they don’t DO anything about it. Parking lots should also be included in any local legislation. The penalties and enforcement don’t need to be extreme, but the message must be delivered. Because I have asthma I am particularly aware of exhaust fumes. Often I must restrain myself from angry actions when I walk past a parked car in which someone is eating his lunch, or talking on the phone with the windows closed, the engine going, and the weather is moderate to warm. This happens all the time. I have thought about printing a flyer and placing it on windshields, but am afraid to take the chance of angering some erratic person. So, please let’s set a sensible public policy that will both educate and encourage compliance.

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By: liberalNIMBY http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/01/19/ann-arbor-restarts-talk-on-vehicle-idling/comment-page-1/#comment-86848 liberalNIMBY Sat, 21 Jan 2012 03:03:19 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=79546#comment-86848 How perfectly do our councilmembers’ reactions—and attendance—exemplify the difference between “public servant” and “politician.” Yes, one of your Lexus-driving, soccer-mom donors is going to get a ticket. Yes, you’re going to get hysterical phone calls. Yes, the dot-com headlines are going to be all over you, gleefully chumming for comments by nanny-state-fearing township dodos. Get over it—there’s a goddamn asthma crisis, and there are far too many strollers being wheeled past rows of belching SUVs every day. You and your kids can keep your jackets on until the car warms up.

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By: Rod Johnson http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/01/19/ann-arbor-restarts-talk-on-vehicle-idling/comment-page-1/#comment-86834 Rod Johnson Fri, 20 Jan 2012 22:54:25 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=79546#comment-86834 It isn’t really private property if you’re sitting in the Huron High parking lot. Plus, even actions on private property can have an impact on people on the other side of the property line. This fetishization of private property as some sort of sacred desideratum of freedom really needs to be reined in a bit.

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By: Vivienne Armentrout http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/01/19/ann-arbor-restarts-talk-on-vehicle-idling/comment-page-1/#comment-86813 Vivienne Armentrout Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:07:44 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=79546#comment-86813 There was a mention at the AATA meeting last night of a state law (still in early days) regarding idling. I wonder how that would affect this local ordinance.

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By: G. Berry http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/01/19/ann-arbor-restarts-talk-on-vehicle-idling/comment-page-1/#comment-86803 G. Berry Fri, 20 Jan 2012 11:27:13 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=79546#comment-86803 The real issue here is whether the government has the right to prohibit a private citizen from using his/her private property for something as basic as staying warm. Some on city council would limit the use of a car for staying warm to five minutes in every hour. This raises some questions.
First, if the city can restrict the use of private motor vehicles for staying warm, doesn’t it also have the right to do the same in private residences?
Second, how would the pro ordinance council members respond if a homeless shelter used its furnace only five minutes in every hour and let the building to drop to outside temperatures during the remaining time?
Finally, if staying warm is now a luxury, why doesn’t council insist that the HVAC system for council chambers should be shut down 55 minutes of every hour. This could have the collateral benefit of reducing the length of council meetings and keeping them focused on the real problems the city faces.

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By: Kristi http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/01/19/ann-arbor-restarts-talk-on-vehicle-idling/comment-page-1/#comment-86759 Kristi Thu, 19 Jan 2012 20:13:41 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=79546#comment-86759 My third child going through the AAPS attends Huron. After nearly a decade of my kids playing sports I have now parked among idling cars countless times (for up to 15 mins) as I’ve waited to pick up my kids from their sports practices. It would be very easy for the schools to put up a sign, have coaches provide reminders, and simply have one parent each season receive a citation for there to be clean air for our kids to inhale as they walk to our cars. It wouldn’t take aggressive enforcement – a citation for one person would influence many parents on a sports team. In fact, I’d be willing to be the one to set an ‘example’!

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By: Steve Bean http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/01/19/ann-arbor-restarts-talk-on-vehicle-idling/comment-page-1/#comment-86755 Steve Bean Thu, 19 Jan 2012 19:14:59 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=79546#comment-86755 “Lumm expressed the view that education is fine, but enforcement is an entirely different matter.”

“[Higgins] said that if there were a child who’d learned in school that you should shut your car off, those children would be sitting in the back seat telling their parents: You should shut the car off!”

That’s an enormous “if”, Marcia. Aside from school dropoffs, I’d venture that the percentage of overall passenger vehicle trips that include a child of school age is in the single digits. Also, what’s the deal with the propensity of adults to shift responsibility for their behavior to children?

“[Heiftje] described education as a wiser course than talking about enforcement.”

Maybe Lumm, Higgins, and Heiftje should run for school board if they’re more interested in education than the necessary and appropriate role of government to regulate behaviors that impact the commons. And way to try to limit the scope prior to a public hearing, folks!

Granted, education is also a necessary and useful approach. However, as Naud’s and Teall’s examples demonstrate, education alone–especially in a world of information bombardment–tends to fall short.

The question arises, are the reluctant council members sincerely open to an enforceable ordinance or are they hoping either that a funded education program would put an end to consideration of it, or that a failure to get funding could be used as a rationale for dropping it altogether?

In Donella Meadows’ book, Thinking in Systems: A Primer, which I mentioned in another thread, she describes a third approach to addressing the so-called tragedy of the commons: privatization of the commons (p. 119.) In this case, that would entail directing the tailpipe exhaust into the cab of the vehicle. Gotta say that there’s a certain sense of poetic justice to that image.

I’ll have more to say on the likely effectiveness of the proposed ordinance later.

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By: Eric Boyd http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/01/19/ann-arbor-restarts-talk-on-vehicle-idling/comment-page-1/#comment-86754 Eric Boyd Thu, 19 Jan 2012 19:01:03 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=79546#comment-86754 I suspect zombies are excluded.

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By: Dave Askins http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/01/19/ann-arbor-restarts-talk-on-vehicle-idling/comment-page-1/#comment-86753 Dave Askins Thu, 19 Jan 2012 18:48:11 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=79546#comment-86753 Re: [1] Or does ["breather"] just mean “everyone”?

I think the intended meaning is “everyone.”

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