Comments on: In it for the Money: Kleptocracy http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/10/23/in-it-for-the-money-kleptocracy/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=in-it-for-the-money-kleptocracy it's like being there Tue, 16 Sep 2014 04:56:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.2 By: Rod Johnson http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/10/23/in-it-for-the-money-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-141971 Rod Johnson Wed, 07 Nov 2012 19:57:33 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=99250#comment-141971 It’s hard not to imagine what Moroun’s $30 mil could have done to fix up Michigan Central Station, or renovate/tear down his dozens of decrepit houses around Detroit, or just done *something* positive. As it is, he enriched a lot of ad agencies, lawyers, designers, printers and TV stations, which is job creation in a way, I guess. But basically he got nothing out of it, and we got nothing out of it but some delicious schadenfreude. Folly.

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By: David Erik Nelson http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/10/23/in-it-for-the-money-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-141909 David Erik Nelson Wed, 07 Nov 2012 17:45:29 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=99250#comment-141909 Just hit Satchel’s for my “Victory Over Prop 6″ free pulled-pork sandwich. FYI: It comes with two lil sides! I.e., not only did we thwart a presumptuous billionaire, but we *also* get a free lunch. unTANSTAAFL!

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By: David Erik Nelson http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/10/23/in-it-for-the-money-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-141758 David Erik Nelson Wed, 07 Nov 2012 12:29:05 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=99250#comment-141758 UPDATE:

I had tacos with Consul General Roy Norton yesterday (details here: [link] and [link] — none of which is hyperbole: In my presence Canada pledged to pay for the NITC. These folks are legit).

And I’m very pleased with us this morning, Michigan. The Freep reports that we “crushed” Moroun’s proposals (link)–a remarkable achievement, since Moroun had poured *an additional* ~$10 million into his ad campaign *since this column was written.* He had paid workers at our polling places yesterday pushing his amendments. Meanwhile, there was virtually *no money* supporting the “No on Prop 6″ positions–and yet a clear majority of voters called bullshit on the whole mess. To my eyes, there can be no more reassuring endorsement of our unique, janky brand of democracy than this: Clearly, as individuals, we can be bought–after all, plenty of Michiganders took a paycheck to help Moroun with his scheme–but in the end, as a People, we’re not going to be gulled; we can keep each other honest. Our System itself–when we show up, when we imbue it with our own vital essence and bless it with our attention–isn’t for sale. Well played, everyone! I’m proud of Us.

In other news, we’ve all earned free sandwiches from Satchel’s: [link] I’ll personally be there between 11:30 and noon; see you there!

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By: Rick Cronn http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/10/23/in-it-for-the-money-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-135177 Rick Cronn Sun, 28 Oct 2012 07:04:45 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=99250#comment-135177 @joeblog, that’s a negotiating point. Don’t be naive. Of course everyone should have some skin in the game. To those with them most, the benefit of larger gains. Just playing the averages tells me that Detroit and SEMI stand to benefit proportionately more than most because of their current state. Imho, that’s not a bad thing.

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By: Chris Young http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/10/23/in-it-for-the-money-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-133052 Chris Young Wed, 24 Oct 2012 18:46:59 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=99250#comment-133052 Posted below is a video, with real facts about NITC: [link]

I am voting NO on prop 6.

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By: Chris http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/10/23/in-it-for-the-money-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-132561 Chris Wed, 24 Oct 2012 00:25:47 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=99250#comment-132561 For me, it is not the bridge so much as it is the ridiculous self-serving amendments to the state constitution that affect all bridges and all tax adjustments going forward. You don’t have to think hard to see the unintended consequences. For example, would you want to be put into the position that voters would have to approve property taxes decreasing with property value declines? Of course it would likely pass, but you’d have to wait for the cycle.

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By: David Erik Nelson http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/10/23/in-it-for-the-money-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-132557 David Erik Nelson Wed, 24 Oct 2012 00:19:23 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=99250#comment-132557 I don’t usually chime in, but wanted to offer folks a couple handy links:

For the curious, a spreadsheet of bridge traffic data for all 11 bridge crossings to Canada is available as an Excel spreadsheet on the Public Border Operators Association website: [link] (it’s pretty detailed; check out the “ANNUAL” tab for aggregated data that’s easier to look at).

Crossings on the Ambassador have been up year-to-year since 2009 (as Chris mentioned, comparing 2009 to projected 2012 show’s ~12% increase). In my humble, crossing numbers from 2000 are apples-to-oranges; 2000 is *before* an international terrorist attack that made crossing US international borders orders of magnitude more complicated. It’s also six-ish years prior to an enormous recession . You’ll note that the aggregated crossing numbers dip (with the exception of a couple of the smallest crossings in NY) from 2006–i.e., the start of the Great Recession–and then rise for *all* crossings since the nominal recovery began in 2009; if this was just a matter of truckers picking a different route to Canada, you’d expect Ambassador to fall and someone else to rise accordingly. But these are all rising.

Joe Blog: Thanks for the link! I urge everyone to read it. The article is titled “Snyder stumps against Proposal 6, confirms Canada on hook for bridge cost overruns,” which sorta says it all (J.B., I’m gonna hold off on rewriting just yet, regardless of how mercilessly you’ve pummeled that Straw Man). The Crain’s article, read in its entirety, offers solid background on this issue. But that lede paragraph is a curiosity, as a written agreement *does* exist–here it is, executed back in June: [link] It’s long, but the summary (at the bottom of page 1) is both pithy and clear:

“The Crossing Agreement provides a framework for a Crossing Authority established by Canada to design, construct, finance, operate and maintain a new International Crossing between Canada and Michigan, under the oversight of a jointly established International Authority with three members appointed by Canada and the Crossing Authority and three members appointed by the Michigan Parties, and with funding approved by Canada, but with no funding by the Michigan Parties. The Michigan Parties are not obligated to pay any of the costs of the new International Crossing.”

My baby has croup and I’m exhausted! Have a great evening, everyone!

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By: Steve Bean http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/10/23/in-it-for-the-money-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-132539 Steve Bean Tue, 23 Oct 2012 23:29:31 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=99250#comment-132539 @14: I saw a video ad on Weather Underground’s site [link] today of Snyder and Virg Bernero (the Dem candidate in the 2010 gub. election) speaking against Prop 5.

Even if a new bridge weren’t needed (and I’m not saying that one is), amending the state constitution is a ridiculous way to prevent it from happening.

Tolls would apply equally to Canadian vehicles (I assume), so exorbitant tolls wouldn’t be likely.

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By: Barbara Annis http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/10/23/in-it-for-the-money-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-132515 Barbara Annis Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:31:31 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=99250#comment-132515 I find myself agreeing with you on many if not most things. That said, since I don’t immediately agree with you on the bridge issue, I am giving it extra thought, so I have questions. First of all, I am not a Synder fan. The fact that he is going head-to-head with a private individual (no matter how rich or able to fight back) makes me uncomfortable. What if it was a neighborhood of poor people that he decided to bulldoze because he could? Secondly, I have not seen compelling arguments showing that we need a new bridge. They do appear to be a bit anachronistic. Thirdly, if Canada pays for it, doesn’t that mean they own it? Might they not impose crippling tolls, or some other odious condition sometime in the future that we would have no control over? It is kind of like the Belle Isle issue. When something seems too good to be true, it may mean we don’t have enough information.

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By: Chris http://annarborchronicle.com/2012/10/23/in-it-for-the-money-kleptocracy/comment-page-1/#comment-132510 Chris Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:22:14 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=99250#comment-132510 I think the point with both age and race was that these are usually attributes that keep you out of jail. As a rich old white man, you really have to go some to get put into jail, rather than be able to talk/buy your way into a home detention.

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