Comments on: Tax Question Focus of Transit Board Meeting http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/02/23/tax-question-focus-of-transit-board-meeting/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=tax-question-focus-of-transit-board-meeting it's like being there Tue, 16 Sep 2014 04:56:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.2 By: John Floyd http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/02/23/tax-question-focus-of-transit-board-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-297466 John Floyd Thu, 06 Mar 2014 03:53:42 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=131061#comment-297466 Steve,

Beyond some travel in Europe, I have no personal experience outside of North America. It is my impression that cities that were large before, say, 1850, are congested, period. If my impression is correct, that would cover many of the large cities of Europe, and likely many in Asia, as well.

The purported benefits of big city transit are unlikely to occur in an area the size and population of metropolitan Ann Arbor. It probably makes more sense for the U, like Google or Apple around San Francisco, to run their own commuter buses from Ypsilanti, Howell, Milan, Canton or wherever.

]]>
By: Steve Bean http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/02/23/tax-question-focus-of-transit-board-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-297284 Steve Bean Tue, 04 Mar 2014 14:36:55 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=131061#comment-297284 John, that’s another interesting perspective vis a vis congestion. Is there a reason for the “American” qualifier? Does it not hold in Europe, for example, or were you just not speaking beyond your area of experience/knowledge?

]]>
By: John Floyd http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/02/23/tax-question-focus-of-transit-board-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-297256 John Floyd Tue, 04 Mar 2014 05:22:34 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=131061#comment-297256 When I lived in Chicago, not all parts of town had the same service level, yet everyone paid the same transit tax. Some routes ran all night, some didn’t. Some places had express service, some didn’t. Some routes had frequent service, some didn’t. Some places were near the EL, some weren’t. Everyone paid the same transit tax. For what it’s worth, I don’t recall anyone ever suggesting that this was unfair. It just was.

Seperately:

There are many good reasons to support mass transit, even in a company town like ours. Reduced congestion, however, is NOT one of those reasons. No American city with excellent transits has the absence of congestion. Indeed, the cities with the best transit are precisely the cities with the worst congestion. This is because transit doesn’t reduce traffic. Rather, it enables growth over what the streets can otherwise carry. This distinction only sounds subtle. When you live it, the difference is obvious: people only use transit when their auto commute becomes intolerable. Should the auto commute become more tolerable, a transit users would return to auto commuting up to the point where traffic was once again intolerable.

It’s probably not possible to have a good transit system until auto commuting has become intolerable. Then, people want the other guy to take the bus so that their own car commute is easy. Transit doesn’t reduce congestion, it enables further crowding.

]]>
By: Steve Bean http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/02/23/tax-question-focus-of-transit-board-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-297238 Steve Bean Mon, 03 Mar 2014 22:04:44 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=131061#comment-297238 Jack, if I lived in an area where I had to walk, say, a mile to the nearest bus stop, and the buses ran on that route only every hour, while other parts of the “urban core” service area had buses running every 15 minutes and a stop within a quarter mile of every residence, I think I’d object to paying the same millage as residents in those areas. I”m assuming that service hours would be the same for all routes, so that much would be irrelevant. Do you really think that the level of service differential in my hypothetical is irrelevant, or do you think it’s not realistic?

You referred to the second ward being “thinly served”. What do you mean by that?

]]>
By: Jack Eaton http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/02/23/tax-question-focus-of-transit-board-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-297236 Jack Eaton Mon, 03 Mar 2014 21:44:10 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=131061#comment-297236 Re: (25). Steve, the issue of “level of service” is irrelevant to my point. I believe that every taxpayer within the “urban core” service area should pay the same rate of taxes because he or she has access to the entire transit system.

I believe that Mr. Warpehoski’s argument relied on the idea that the particular level of service provided in each community warranted the different tax rates. If that belief is correct, I will leave it to him to explain his view.

]]>
By: Steve Bean http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/02/23/tax-question-focus-of-transit-board-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-297226 Steve Bean Mon, 03 Mar 2014 18:46:16 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=131061#comment-297226 That’s an interesting perspective, Jack (and Roger). I think it would help to clarify what makes up “level of service” so that further discussion is productive. Does it include, for example, average distance from a residence to a bus stop (to which Chuck referred), the frequency of service at the nearest stop, the number of hours of service on weekdays and weekends? Anything else?

]]>
By: Jack Eaton http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/02/23/tax-question-focus-of-transit-board-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-297218 Jack Eaton Mon, 03 Mar 2014 17:32:15 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=131061#comment-297218 Re: (23). It is not entirely true that each community pays for what it gets. The AAATA is a regional system. Anyone who gets on a bus anywhere in that system has access to all other points within that system (assuming one has enough time). A resident of Ypsilanti Township, paying just 0.7 mills, and anyone in the City of Ypsilanti, paying about 1.6 mills, will be able to ride the bus anywhere within the AAATA service area, just like Ann Arbor residents who will be paying 2.75 mills.

An Ann Arbor resident living in the thinly served Second Ward, where few service improvements are planned, will pay the same millage as a City resident in an area where service is good and improved service is proposed. Transit service is not, and should not be, based on the service one gets. It should be based on the service available throughout the system, to which all riders have access. This is how it is in the Lansing area and in the Grand Rapids area where all participating communities pay the same millage.

]]>
By: Chuck Warpehoski http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/02/23/tax-question-focus-of-transit-board-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-297134 Chuck Warpehoski Sun, 02 Mar 2014 19:44:03 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=131061#comment-297134 Re: #22 Different districts pay different rates and get different levels of service. Ann Arbor shouldn’t cut itself to the lower service levels in the townships, nor should the townships be forced to come up to the high service standard of stops within 1/4 mile of residential centers in Ann Arbor. Each jurisdiction pays for what it gets. Seems fair to me.

]]>
By: Roger Kuhlman http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/02/23/tax-question-focus-of-transit-board-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-297062 Roger Kuhlman Sat, 01 Mar 2014 21:26:44 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=131061#comment-297062 Why is it that taxpayers in the AAATA service district pay differential tax rates? That does not seem fair to me. Is it because the special interests who run and benefit from AAATA know they could never get people in Ypsilanti and other places to pay the onerous and outrageous millage of 2.7 mills we in Ann Arbor will have to pay if this new taxation measure passes.

]]>
By: Roger Kuhlman http://annarborchronicle.com/2014/02/23/tax-question-focus-of-transit-board-meeting/comment-page-1/#comment-297061 Roger Kuhlman Sat, 01 Mar 2014 21:21:30 +0000 http://annarborchronicle.com/?p=131061#comment-297061 @John Q:

I think most auto users in the city would love to get the sudsidies that bus riders get in Ann Arbor where they only pay 25% of the direct costs of their ride. Sure there are various subsidies in many things but it is size and degree of the subsidy which is the problem with bus ridership not the mere presence of a subsidy. Public subsidies for AAATA are far too high and must not grow even more.

]]>